Hi All,

I am trying to build up enough courage to install a 3/4" x 5" pre-finished solid bloodwood floor in my 200 sq ft, second story kitchen. I searched the forum, but it seems that bloodwood is not a very popular material. All I found on the forum was this thread, which, unfortunately, offered no conclusions.

Likewise, I have purchased the floor from Lumber Liquidators about a year ago after being lured/encouraged by the great looking samples I saw at the store. Needless to say, my heart sank when I got the (non-cancellable) order delivered. After inspecting the contents, I found out that, out of 8 boxes, I picked 1 full box of boards that I thought could not possibly be installed (and that's without being really picky). About 15% reject ratio? I do not know much about flooring, but that seemed high. I called LL and they agreed to replace the bad material (with only a little resistance). And so I got another box containing about the same percentage of unusable boards. In any case, the wood IS really beautiful -- it's a pity that the LL "quality" does not do it justice.

So here I am today: I think that I have worked out a plan for building up the subfloor with plywood underlayment (thanks, Gary!), but have some concerns regarding the actual installation.

I know that bloodwood is hard (~2900 Janka) and of average stability, but quite brittle.

Can you offer any advice for working with brittle material? The 3/4" x 5" boards seem to have quite a bit of the mind of their own (especially the shorter pieces). I plan to nail them down with 2" cleats (PorterCable FCN200 nailer) as I heard that the cleats tend to split the material less than staples.

I brought up this subject with an installer/salesguy at LL. He confirmed that "the tongues will be flying" and gave me this advice:

- Go with shorter cleats (1 1/2") that would cause "less stress".
- "Adjust" the nailer by putting several layers of duct tape on one end of the nailer's foot, which would make it shoot the cleats at a smaller angle, i.e. more parallel to the floor and more into the board.

Does either of the above sound like a valid advice? I am not sure:

The 1 1/2" and 2" cleats (PorterCable) are of the same thickness and differ only in length. With 5" wide boad, don't I need all the holding strength that I can get from the cleat? (hence the 2" cleat)

Ditto for the "adjusted angle" trick... I can see how this could cause less splitting, but such alignment would also result in lesser length of the cleat in the underlayment.

If anybody can shed some light on this, please take pity...

Regards,

Tom

Well Tom, I'll take stab at this. Keep in mind that all of the harder hardwoods are more difficult to nail down due to tongue split. I just experienced this with #2 hickory and I used a cleat nailer as well. I don't agree to use shorter nails and fail to see how that would make a difference. What I will say is avoid nailing too close to the ends. Stay at least 2" away from the butts when nailing. Also, with 5" planks, I'd consider gluing and nailing. Now, this isn't a NWFA recommendation but many pros are going to this method on wider boards. You can either full spread with Bostick's Best or use PL400 in a glue gun. If you glue as well as nail, you won't be able to use the asphalt felt so it is important to have a moisture barrier installed under the house. Make sure your underlayment is flat. As far as changing the angle of the nail, I'm not sure that will matter either but air pressure does so you'll need to do test to see which pressure level your nailer and the flooring do best under. Start at 80 lbs. PSI and work up from there till you find the optimum pressure for your nailer that will fully set the cleat but not blow the tongue to smithereens.
With the glue and nail install method, you can use fewer nails and if you do get some tongue breakage, you will still have the adhesive holding the flooring in place. If you only got 200 sq.ft. to install, shouldn't be too much hard work to do the glue and nail method. Now 2000 sq.ft., that's another story.

Gary,

Thanks for the stab :-)

The kitchen is on the second floor of the house, so I was not planning on putting the moisture barrier, just the roofing felt (no overlap) on the subfloor and on the underlayment. I am hoping that the moisture (if any) will be sufficiently retarded by the felt between the subfloor and the underlayment.

The subfloor has some valleys along/between the 24 OC beams and I was planning on compensating for those with pieces of #30 felt under the 1/2" CDX (or BC) plywood underlayment -- just as indicated on the main web side guide/FAQ. There would also be a layer of #15 felt on top of these #30 pieces, so the underlayment does not squeak. I may be paranoid about the squeaks, but, in preparation of the floor, I tore off four layers of old coverings (including ceramic and vinyl tiles) that all used to squeak like crazy.

So, if I do go with the nail/glue and w/o the second layer of felt, how much PL400 should I use? Should I cover the plank completely or just "snake" it along the board?

Also, with glue/nail, how much do I need to nail? Originally (nail only) I was planning on nailing every 8 inches while keeping away about 3 inches from the butts.

Regards,

Tom

Your idea about using felt to level the subfloor prior to installing your underlayment is exactly the way I do it. After leveling, then cover everything with the 15 lb. and you ready to install the CDX. After installing the CDX, check for flatness again and sand down any high spots. As far as using PL400, run a wiggly bead back and forth along the length. You can run a bead every 8" across the width of the back as well (not both). Then nail every 12" or so which will still suck up the boards tight (assuming they're milled well enough to get tight) I didn't realize you're on the second floor. No need for a moisture barrier. You'll be fine as far as water is concerned. PL400 works fine; Bostick's is better. I understand you can get Bostick's in tubes now but I don't know where (so don't ask )

Gary,

Thanks again for the advice. It seems that my guesses have been correct. At least so far.

As far as the milling precision, ugh, err, hmm -- the boards look very pretty but they did come from LL, so my hopes are not up. At this point, having read the stories, I'll be happy with any decent outcome.

Last two details (famous last words :-)

1) From Bostik's site, I figure that I'll need about 4-5 gallons of Bostik's Best for my <200 sq ft install. Does that sound about right?

2) If I glue a board and a part of the tongue splits off when nailed, but the board fits well, i.e. does not require the nail to hold it in straight/flat, can I leave it in? I figure that I can, as long as this does not happen too often.

I ask the last question because I have only about 5% more boards than the actual surface to cover (the LL salesman lead me to believe that's all I need with their excellent product and I believed him). Had I know ahead of time...

Regards,

Tom.

1) With 3/4" flooring, you'll use more adhesive because the trowel notch size is larger. A 5 gal. pail sounds about right for 200 sq.ft. Use thr recommended trowel size. I don't recall what that is right now for Bostick's. Franklin's is 1/4" and you barely get 30 sq/ft. per gallon. I think Bostick's gets better coverage.
2) Once you set it into Bostick's, that stuff really grabs. Don't expect to be able to slide the wood around much. You'll probably need a tapping block. I think in this case, I'd recommend going the tube route. If that flooring isn't fitting real well right away, full spread with Bostick's is going to be difficult. Use Bostick's in the tube or PL400, which is more forgiving and has less initial grab. If a tongue splits or breaks, don't worry, with the glue, you'll still be fine. Have fun!

Hi Gary,

Another quick question: How many layers of #30 felt (max) would you feel comfortable with before you started considering other methods of leveling the subfloor?

My quick measurements indicate that #30 felt I got from HD is about 1/32" thick so it would take about 4 layers to build up the deepest point of a 1/8" deep "valley" (tapered, of course) and, possibly, 8 layers to get up to a 1/4".

In my case the "valleys" between the joists are about 1/8" deep, but I also got one that is almost a 1/4" deep. Could you please comment?

Regards,

Tom

Buy a cheap bundle of asphalt shingles.