Sent a guy out to do a wood floor ( solid oak over concrete) a few months ago. He said he did a moisture meter and it read 12%. That is not unusual here in Louisiana. Very humid. Never did a CaCl test. Used dritac 7600.
Now we have cupping throughout the floor. Not bad, but definitely noticeable. Of course, the supplier is no help. I can't get any info from them. I have installed dozens of solid wood floors in this area over the years without incident. This is the 2nd Bella floor I have had problems with. I want to help the customer, but preferable without coming out of pocket 20G's. Any recommendations or info on the Bella.
Thanks

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12% eh?

well if it was near 4% on the Tramex Concrete moisture meter, I would say you needed a moisture blocker. But I would have used an overkill moisture blocking system for any solid over concrete!!!!! Mandatory!!


The guy you sent out, did not understand what moisture does to wood. Sounds installation related to me. Now you have $20 G's in firewood. That won't taste good, even with salt 7 pepper. OUCH!!!!!

What people (except Perry, me and some other informed installers, like Chuck) don't understand is:
1) All healthy concrete will continue to emit some moisture in the form of vapor. And a moisture reading is only a snapshot in time. At other times, readings could be different.
2) Solid wood glued directly to concrete will always cup unless a moisture control system was used.
3) Urethane adhesives are NOT moisture barriers. NO manufacturer, except Stauf, warrants that their adhesive will protect the flooring from absorbing moisture. Taylor, Bostick's, Franklin, Sika, Chemrex, DriTac, etc. do warrant that the bond won't fail but that isn't a moisture failure warranty. To get a warranty against failure due to moisture, you need to use the adhesive manufacturer's moisture control system.
4) Engineered floors were made specifically for gluing directly to concrete and that is the type of wood flooring that is recommended to be installed directly to concrete. Both NOFMA and the NWFA have in the past, recommended solid wood never be glued directly to concrete.

ok I gotcha on the MVP. Although, I can tell you we have installed many solids over concrete w/o problems. Maybe I was just lucky. I realize that what my guy did is my problem. Frankly, since the storm, none of us have thought very clearly on a lot of things. This customer lives right on the swamp for cryin' out loud. I am not sure even an engineered floor would have held up.

My question at this point is what can I do to fix it? Other than the obvious rip up and re-do, which I can guarantee you will end up being my last job if I have to go that route. I won't leave the customer hanging, but I want to know if there are any other alternatives? It has been 6 months. I doubt its going to settle down. Would sanding and refinishing work it out? Just trying to figure out a way to keep my customer happy and not go bankrupt.

One word... MOLD!!!

Do you carry liability insurance? Perhaps they will cover the cost of replacement.

yes, I do have liability and yes, they probably will cover it. Also, re-do of the slab yesterday afternoon showed 7-10% with the meter (Protimeter survey master). Now not sure on the original 12 %. That installer no longer works for me (surprise surprise)

Test of a wood sample was only 1.3%. Still trying to get "the supplier" to pony up something too. This particular wood just sucks. And I am fairly certain I warned them about it.

HUH?

What's being refered to is that when wood reaches a certain moisture saturation point, fungus and mold can begin to grow. The floors may not have reached that point yet, but they could. Best to remove water or moisture effected wood before mold can get a stronghold.

Who is doing this testing???


What you are saying doesn't make sense to me, as there is only one meter that I know of, that reads concrete moisture from the surface, and that is a Tramex Concrete Moisture Encounter. There are other meters that read the concretes internal humidity, but I guarantee it wouldn't have been 7-10%.
The meter you say they used, is not for measuring concrete moisture!!!! They are playing smoke and mirrors with you.
Here is the pdf. for it
http://www.bnl.gov/esh/shsd/sop/pdf/IH_SOPS/IH97280.pdf


1.3% are you serious!! That would mean no moisture issues, but the humidity is 5% in the room.

I don't see Louisiana being 5% humidity, even indoors with the heater going full blast!!!


Let me just say, something sounds very fishy, and no one is giving you an honest unbiased fact what is happening.

The new reading (the 7-10% and 1.3% of the wood) was done by an independent inspector hired by the client supposedly. I was faxed the report yesterday. Report states the equipment used was a Protimeter Survey-Master moisture meter. I cannot tell from the report if the wood sample measuring 1.3% was a plank already installed from the floor or and unused sample left over from the install.

Have already been in contact with my insurance company. I imagine part of their investigation will be to send their own inspector out to test.

This client has already told me some contradictory (sp) things about the situation, so yes, its fishy. But the fact still remains that her floor is cupped badly and will probably have to be replaced.

I mentioned in my original post what wood this was and where it came from. Not one I have a lot of experience with as this supplier is out of town and we try to stick to local ones. Since this issue, I have researched and found that this wood/supplier has consumer complaints coming out the wazoo for similar issues. I don't know if this will help my case though. The consumer pleads ignorance. I can't exactly do that as professionals are not allowed to be ignorant. (sigh) I guess that is what insurance is for.

The inspector the client hired, doesn't know what he was doing!!! A hired gun, without wood knowledge. I bet he is a carpet cleaner/inspector!!!!

FloorGirl,
Cupping is the result of a moisture imbalance within the planks. Cupping can occur due to excessive Relative Humidity, not just concrete vapor emissions.
However, Perry, Gary, Hank, Jim, Bill, Randal, Joe, Ken are right: No matter what,,,,,,,, do not glue solids direct.

About that statement you made: I've installed solids without any problems, except this bella stuff (or something like that).........
Wood is wood, no matter who mills and finishes it. No manufacturer can change the properties of wood.
If you install solids in Louisiana, I can promise a failure........... None of us can tell you what day that will be, but we can gaurantee a cupped floor and complete failure at some point in time.