Hi Guys:

I just opened one board and guess what, it brought the tile it was glued to with it. Basically it wasn't the wood popping, it was the wood AND THE TILE. See some photos at the following link

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brijesh/

I cannot understand why there is a plastic moisture barrier under the tiles and that too only in one portion. My previous owner said he did not tamper with the tiles. He just glued wood on them. So the person laying the tiles knew about the moisture problems? And all I know is that the tiles have been there for more than 30 years.

So, what are my options now?

1. Get hardwood installed in the whole house (is it possible?)
2. Get laminate flooring in the whole house (glued? floating?)
3. Repair this section (how?)

Option 1 would be very nice. I like this type of wood/floor. The options I have seen in laminate flooring do not look as exciting. Maybe if I search for something similar I will find it but I have not seen anything like this in laminate flooring so far. Maybe I can buy engineered.

Also, I have $200 worth of (same) brand new wood which is non-refundable. Not very important but I would hate to throw it out along with the entire floor.

Finally, there is a chance that the installaer might salvage some of this wood saving me the cost on buying new wood.

Option 2 is good because it is a no pain alternative. I would basically not have any moisture problems with laminate flooring. Period.

But can I lay it down myself? Do I need to rip out all the floor AND the tiles or is there a shortcut? Floating or glued? Installers usually charge less for laminate flooring so this option would be enticing. But throwing this wonderful floor away would suck. Unless I find something as good looking.

Finally, is there a repair option I am missing? I can press down both sides to level the floor but the new wood is less thick than the empty space because of the missing (broken) tile. And there is gooey glue from under the tiles. I can clean that up. What do I do about the moisture barrier?

If I could lay down some thin support (like a vinyl tile cut to size) and then glue the board that should do it. I know it sounds ridiculous but I am clutching at straws here.

Thoughts?

You might be able to save the wood as It looks like it came up kind of clean.

That all has to come up..


Those pictures tell a thousand words. That is typical DIY work right there. No paid professional whould be clueless enough to do that on purpose.

To me, from what I can see in the photos, it looks like Bruce "Natural Reflections", their 5/16" solid, that is glued down to the Bruce poly moisture barrier. No wonder you're having problems. That moisture barrier is for NAIL DOWN, not glue down. Whoever installed this mess should be shot. IMO, you need to rip out all that crap, down to the subfloor. Then you can tell what's up with your floors. Typical homeowner crap; just slapping good over bad; cover it up. Anything to save time and money. Well, if that is your goal, you've come to the wrong place. We're all about doing right in the first place. No shortcuts here. So, unfortunately, we're gonna recommend starting over. IF you can save that flooring, great, more power to you. But with that glue all over it, it will be a bugger to reinstall. Personally, I wouldn't want any part of it. I suppose you can just continue to sandwich more good over bad if you wish; that's your perogative. But I wouldn't recommend it. Get down to the subfloor and start over, doing it the correct way. Sorry to sound harsh. It's just when I see crap like this that I can't help become a bit "unglued" myself.

I like Gary's observations and comments. Solid wood will pull up tile due to shrink and swell characteristic of solids.
Not a good idea to glue wood to Resilient tile even if it is Engineered wood.

I had an installer come over and he said he would do a floating installation to replace this mess. He said he would tear out the wood and the tiles and then he would lay a wooden sub floor and then he would lay the exact same wood as he has done somewhere else.

When I asked him if it was solid wood or engineered (that he installed) he did not know.

That surprised me a bit. I mean if I were to go with his suggestion and lay down solid wood on concrete again, what is to say I wouldn't have problems again. Even though, I know if it is a floating install and there is room on the ends, then the wood will have room to expand. But I want to be careful in choosing the installer.

In fact, I want to play it safe a get laminate for the replacement. But I am afraid I have not seen anything in laminate flooring that looks like this (Bruce Natural Reflections Oak Gunstock). If anyone knows, please let me know.

From the sound of it, you don't have any true professionals in your area!!!

That installer sounds clueless. Why the need for a wood subfloor?
That is an extra expense you don't need, especially for a floating installation.

That is the technique used if a solid wood and moisture barriers are to be used over concrete.

Do I understand correctly that the installer wants to float Bruce Reflections? Please don't do that.
Is it Reflections that was glued directly to resilient tile? That is a no-no.

I see a complete replacement being required with the subfloor needing proper preparation. Proper preparation is "Manufacturer Specifications" concerning approved subfloors. There are industry standards but they are preceeded by Manufacturer Installation and Subfloor requirements.
So, the floor needs to be installed per manufacturer specs. Maybe read the specs and installation requirements.
Laminate ain't wood................ by a long shot.........

Yes and yes. Installer wants to float reflections. He said he has done it elsewhere. And yes my previous owner glued reflections on top of tiles. He thought it was engineered wood.

I agree with you about Laminate flooring but I think that would be my safest bet in these circumstances. My only problem is that it does not look as nice as reflections.

So what you are saying is that I should look at Bruce's website to find out their specification/recommendation for installing reflections over concrete slab?

Mr. Yellowguy.
Absolutely look at Bruce Installation Guidlines. Reflections is a bit of a different animal that many installers are not familiar with. How many times have we heard "it worked over there", but that was only 6 weeks ago, if he was telling the truth about that installation.
Not following Manufacturer Installation and maintenance guidlines result in loss of warranty.
Protect yourself by reading the specifications, printing them out for reference.
Good luck.

I agree 100% with what Ray is refering to.

You need to read and understand completely, the specific installation requirements, for the product your looking at. They are not all the same.



Here is what you need to do...


Remove all your existing wood floor. Use it for firewood this winter.

Remove all the adhesive and junk on the concrete.

Buy a latex fortified portland cement floor patching compound.

Map the floor for high and low places.

Grind off the high's and fill the lows with the patching compound you purchased.

Undercut the doorjambs and any other fixed objects that cannot accept trim molding. So the flooring slide under it.

Install a 6-mil poly or greater moisture barrier.

Install the underlayment cushion, required for a floating wood or laminate floor.

Install your floating floor, following the installation requirements to the "T".

Install your trim molding and transitions.

Place your furnishings on the floor and pop a cold one.

I tell you one thing I would run from a guy who was suggesting a produvct he recently installed and couldnt tell you if it was solid or eng. Geez can you say lookout.

Yeah Kevin, that is exactly what I thought. I mean even I know better than that. The first thing I would do before any install would be to find out of it is solid or engineered. And I am no professional installer. I was completely surprised by his answer.

To Floorguy above: thanks for the helpful post. This is just what I needed. However, can you say if this will work for solid wood? Or do it need engineered wood? And the "underlayment cusion" that you speak of (for laminate or engineered), is it available in hardware/flooring stores? I need to factor in the cost.

Thanks so much.

This is not for a solid wood flooring. Solid wood cannot be installed as a glued T&G, floater. I even question if it can be successfully installed gluedown directly

Not all engineered wood can be floated, either. Some are fasten or gluedown only. Some are gluedown only.

Laminate flooring is floating only floor.

The underlayment cushion, is what is suppose to be used under any floating floor. There are all kinds and qualities of underlayment cushion. Some are ever called a 2-n-1 with cushion and moisture barrier combined. Some are just rubber that you need to provide the moisture barrier of 6-mil or greater.
Some looks like styro foam balls between to thin pieces of plastic.

I know this is a bit out of place but I have a den at home that was once the garage so it is a concrete slab. I had some laminate somewhat donated to the cause so I decided to put it down. I didn't want the squish of the foam and the slab was in specs(close anyay) so I just nixed thr foam altoghther. Now let me say i dont reccomend it, and I am sure it voids all kinds of warrenty stuff. The question I have is why not? It's been down for over a year and is flat as the day it went down. BTW I did put some 6 mill poly down. Anybody???