Hi there. Glad to have found this site and message board. I am hoping some folks here can help with my project, and I hope I can share my project with the board .

I have 2000 feet of wide plank, random width ashe flooring that I need to install. It's 5"/7"/9" solid wood, T&G. I am going to install it in my new home which is under construction in Northern NJ. The wood has been on site for two months, and I have acclimated it to the site. It has been stacked in small stacks inside the house. I had the heat connected three weeks ago, and the thermastat has been set at 60F since.

My question is about how to install the flooring. When I first bought the material from a mill in Eastern PA, the salesman told me I could glue it and blind nail it to the subfloor and I would be good to go. He insisted that the wood was dried properly and it would not buckle or warp. But now I have asked around and I am hearing contradicting stories that I HAVE to face nail it, three nails accross on every second joist, and I should not use any adhesive.

So, my question is, what's the best way to install this material? I would very much like to NOT face nail the planks, but I will if I have to. If I don't have to face nail it (or screw and plug) what kind of adhesive should I use? I have read about two part adhesives and eurethane base adhesives....but I don't know which is best.

Any help you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Alan

Hey Alan my suggestion would to definitely use adhesive. I think its important to use hardwood flooring adhesive with installing such wide planks. Good glue is expensive but worth it. I would glue and nail with a flooring stapler; excessively nail every 4 inches or so and make sure you hit the floor joists. Use 2 at least 2" staples. I think you acclimated it well but adhesive is definitely a must. Good luck,take pictures and post them.

I take exception to the advice of over nailing. This will cause tongue split and breakage. I suggest sticking to the NOFMA and NWFA nailing recommendations of within 2" from ends and every 8" between using 2" fasteners. No need to attempt to nail into joists as with a 3/4" floor and 3/4" plywood, very little of that fastener (cleat or staple) will protrude from the bottom of the subfloor. The recommendation of gluing is well advised. You need to use a flooring adhesive like Bostick's Best. Some have used PL400 as well. Face nailing is common to certain pine floors but not needed with todays adhesives. To prevent your floor from cupping, warping and excessive shrinking, maintain RH at 45 to 50% year round and place an 8 mil polyethylene vapor barrier under the house on the ground (unless this is over living space)

I would also glue and staple. If it were my home I would adjust the thermostat on up now, to your after move in living conditions. Do it gradually and just bite the bullet on the energy bill. I don't believe one can be too careful with that type of floor. Go get a temp/Rh meter (hygrometer) and keep a check on the RH.

Thank you folks so much for the advice. Just so I am clear though, are you guys saying that I can use an adhesive like Bostich Best, blind nail as normal and NOT face nail or screw and plug????

One guy I spoke to was talking about a 2 part adhesive from Sweden (I think).....can't remember the name???? Any ideas?? Worth the cost and hassle????

Point taken on pushing the thermastat up to living temps now.....sounds logical, and worth the extra expense.

Thanks in advance.

Alan

NOWFA guidelines / recommendations are wonderful but they are RECOMMENDATIONS. When I install anything 3 1/4" or more we make a practice to nail more and closer together. The tongues dont break. Every so often they do but its not a big deal. When you ask the question, can more fastners hurt the flooring? the answer is No, there is no evidence that more fastners can hurt the flooring. That being said, you would logically assume having more fastners is better than having less. Now, adverse to this, there is evidence when you nail more than 8 inches apart even with 2 1/4" that the floor moves more and you will find in a lot of older homes with a poor nailing schedules the floor boards have spaced anywhere from 1 16th of an inch to a 1/4" and beyond. Good luck. Control moisture, definitely glue, and i advise more is better than less.

P.s.. find the inspector that claims your floor failed due to nailing less than 8 inches apart. I dont think you will, doesnt make any sense.

Below is a link to NOFMA's Installation Manual:
https://www.nofma.org/Portals/0/Publica ... Floors.pdf
The published nailing schedule is 8" oc for plank over a 3/4" subfloor. It also cautions against undernailing and fracturing (breaking) the tongues. This manuel is published from decades of experience by the manufacturers of oak flooring. IMO, it is unecessary to overnail and one risks damaging (breaking) the tongues. Since one will be gluing as well as nailing, I fail to see any advantage to overnailing. Overnailing will not prevent normal expansion and contraction due to seasonal changes but will risk damaging (splitting) the tongues. Tongue split is often not seen on the top of the tongue. However, the backside where the fastener exits the board can be cracked and broken. Staples can cause this to a greater degree; therefore, it is recommended to stay within the nailing schedule recommended by NOFMA.

I just had 3 1"4 installed last week nailed every 4 inches or so with the compressor passed 120 PSI and i RARELY had a tongue split. Now even if i had a staple break off in the backside every other staple which obviously will never in a million chance happen i would have successfully sunk the recommended nailing scheduling at the very least. And time is not a factor in the equation since theoretically you can nail just as fast nailing more frequently since you are sliding or picking and placing your nailer less. I know several other hardwood veterans that would definitely agree with putting more than 8" spaced nails on wider plank boards. Not stating you need every 4 inches, but am stating that it is a good idea to do more than every 8".

I am not looking to argue with you Gary but the more and more I have read various flooring message boards the more i become intrigued by the people who live by the book and die by the book. Flooring installers are not bound by law or state/city regulations like plumbers/electricians. We are in an aesthetically pleasing business not a functional business. That is exactly why we are not bound by these laws and state/city codes. What seperates our aesthetic installations from one another is craftsmanship, professionalism and longevity. So my point is that over the years there have been many great installers who displayed these characteristics and during those times there was no CRI, CFI, NOWFA and etc etc. So the day some decided to collaborate and make these organizations in order to have an "authority" on flooring, every installer who might have done things a bit different yet effective way would be considered inadequate. The real reason there is an authority is to simply make money. Theres no other reason. The people who run and maintain these institutions are in it not for the greater good of the flooring community but as a means to produce income. And heres why... if there was NO way to make money having the institution there is no way it would continue. Now even through the years these institutions have survived states have still not bound flooring installers by regulation and code. Why? because floors dont function, they only need to look good. So dare i say, if i choose to provide craftsmanship, professionalism, and longevity in my installations and i do so choose to install in a different fashion as these institutions have "RECOMMENDED", I am just as good, if not better of an installer for thinking out of the box and providing these characteristics to the fullest extent.

So if i choose to do my installations a different way but still have the same result why would i be held inadequate because i did not follow every recommendation. The school of thought is ridiculous. IMO what helps seperate installers are those who can be put in any situation with any product and create an aesthetically pleasing floor that will last in years to come. Therefore if the means that the installer used were different than the recommended he or she shall be commended but instead all of these people say your wrong.

I just hope that on these message boards different installers from different areas with diverse backgrounds can come together and express their individual opinions without being debated with some people who wrote recommended guidelines. But rather embrace more ideas and see if incoporating them into their workplace help further their craftmanship, professionalism, and longevity without economic reward.

Well said GoodHouse.

Goodhouse said:
"The real reason there is an authority is to simply make money. Theres no other reason. The people who run and maintain these institutions are in it not for the greater good of the flooring community but as a means to produce income."

There is little use in trying to reason with an individual who has a renegade mindset. NOFMA began for the sole purpose of policing it's own; to set a standard for the flooring manufacturing community in terms of quality. It continues this decades long tradition by charging dues to voluntary members who choose to join. There is no cost to the consumer nor contractor.
Now you may choose to install wood flooring anyway you want; and that will be your choice. But when giving advice, it should be within the industry standards or manufacturer's guidelines. It is irresponsible to do otherwise. There is a tradition here of recommending industry standards and tried and true procedures. While it is true unorthodox procedures may work sometimes, they do not have the time tested validity of industry recommended procedures. FYI, I have intitiated a few manufacturer recommendations that have been accepted as industry standards. So I am fully capable of thinking "outside the box' and problem solving. And it's probable that you aren't splitting tongues of that soft southern oak by overnailing. But try that 4" schedule on some real hardwood (sugar maple, brazilian cherry, hickory)and see what happens. Then maybe you will change your tune and attitude. And I will kindly apologize here on this board if you can get even one flooring manufacturing rep that will say his company recommends nailing 3/4" solid plank 4" OC.

Pesonally I think installing a super wide plank like that is going to need to be glued and nailed and a humidistat on the hvac is not going to hurt as well. The one, if not the most important is the flooring is within two points of the subfloor on a moisture meter. That floor sat there for several weeks proir to the heat coming on it probally just now getting back to normal.

Again, thanks for the enthusiastic discussion. I will take this into account when I nail my flooring.

Still, my primary question remains would any of you consider only blind nailing and glueing this flooring in question with Bostich Best adhesive? Or would you say that I HAVE to face nail or screw and plug it?????

From my research Bostich Best seems to be the standard, but some have said that it will lack the elasticity required for such wide planks??!?!?!

Thanks again!

Alan[/img]

If it were me I would go with the Bostic's best and blind nail about every 6-8 inches. It will keep its elasticisity, the floor should only move slightly if the temp and rh are maintained year round.

Alan, there is no way that I would top nail a wide plank floor on my jobs. I have seen first hand how they can move around. Last year I installed a prefinished engineered wood with an Oshkosh prefinished border in a kitchen, that adjoined to a face nailed wide plank floor. That plank floor had gapped open everywhere you would look. Why the lady wanted to leave the planks and adjoin an engineered floor is beyond me to this very day. To me it looked kind of bad, but, I was not the one paying for it .

Thanks Jerry. So do I understand that you would opt for a blind nail installation with Bostik Best????

Alan