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 Post subject: white film of peeling polyurethane
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:01 pm 
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Hello,

I refinished the hardwood floors in a small room last December. I did my best to apply the polyurethane in very thin layers. However, on my first pass, I goofed and ended up with a big splotch of white polyurethane that peeled easily. I sanded and refinished that spot multiple times, and finally got it to a point where it looked good and had no peeling. This spot still looks good.

Today, to my horror, I found several lines around the room that are white. Most of the white occurs where boards meet. It doesn't take much to pick at the white areas so that they peel. It seems that the poly just didn't adhere very well. There are already a few scratches too, and the poly is flaking off there too.

As I said, I really tried to apply thin layers. I applied 5 layers total and used Pro Finisher water-based polyurethane. I'd REALLY appreciate any advice. I was hoping to do the rest of the house this summer because I was so pleased with that room until now.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!!


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 10:23 pm 
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Adhesion claims are usually related to contamination, or the lack of tooth(Sanding) for the finish to grab on to.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:20 am 
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Finishing floors is a combination of art and science. The problems DIYers often get into is that they either do not follow instructions on the labels of finishing products, OR, they take the instructions too literally. Let me explain. Minwax says it's poly is dry enough to lightly sand and recoat in 6 hours. Well, what they don't say is in an absolutely ideal environment with higher temps and low humidity, blah, blah, blah. So the DIYer doesn't realize the finish is too soft and applies more. Now there's a gummy mess that will never dry well. The point is the experienced pro knows his finishes and knows his craft. He can tell (usually) if there is something that will cause a problem with adhesion, drying, flow, durability, etc. It's this experience that the DIYer does not have. So I recommend always consulting a pro (not the salesman at HD) and using pro products, which are specifically designed for floors. The white lines are caused by the finish failing to bond and stretching (being a water based). It will not get better. It will need to be re-sanded down to bare wood and re-done. I notice you said you used Park's Pro Finisher. Did you know you should have used their sealer first? Did you apply it over stain? Did you sand ALL the old finish and stain out of the wood? Many older floors are finished with wax, which is a terrible contaminant. When you're ready to tackle it again, come back here and we can walk you through it with product and procedure suggestions.


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 Post subject: white film
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:08 pm 
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Thanks so much for the advice! I think my problem is partly due to my exuberance since I tackled the project in December (in Wisconsin) rather than wait for warmer, more idealic temperatures. That said, most of the room looks great which now surprises me.

Funny you should mention the salesman at HD because of course that's exactly where I bought everything. To answer your questions: the instructions (I'm the type that takes them literally) very explicitly state not to use a sanding sealer if applying stain which I did. I used an oil-based stain which is ok according to the finisher label, but now I have my doubts. I'd like to say I sanded all of the old finish, but we did have some problem areas particularly near the walls (we did remove the molding.) Those areas look fine though. The problems are specifically where the short edges of the boards meet.

I'm guessing I know the answer to this but here goes: is there anyway I can just sand down those problem spots rather than redo the entire room?

Thanks again for all of your help! I wish I found this last December!


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Location: Antioch, CA. 94509
Some waterbased finishes will STRETCH and create opaque, whitish lines at the joints as the floors expand and contract. Solvent finishes don't do this. So, as a rule, I will use a special sealer that breaks cleanly at seams when flooring expands or contracts. A wax free shellac is excellent for this, as are some of the finish manufacturers sealers. You could try to spot repair those areas. What do you have to lose? Problem is, if it starts peeling back, it usually keeps going. Good luck though.


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 Post subject: white film
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Gary, thanks again for your help. I decided to do it right, sand it down, and do it again. I was happy with the oil-based stain so I plan to use that again. Do you have specific product recommendations for the dewaxed shellac and finish? What do you use to apply it?

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:26 pm 
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I see you are planing on staining the floors. Well, you probably are using Minwax stain, which I don't care for but if you got good results, then fine. Allow the stain to at least 48 hrs. or more. A fan across the floor will aid in the drying of the STAIN. Now since you're using Park's Profinsher Poly, use Park's Universal Sealer as the first coat over the stain. Follow the directions. Park's is SUPPOSED to make a special applicator but good luck finding it. I never can. How did you apply the Profinisher poly? You can use a brush, a roller, a lambswool but I think the synthetic lambswool on the wood block works best. Apply a thin EVEN coat and don't overwork it. It dries FAST so you must work FAST. Also, it's flameable so keep some windows open and pilot lights off. It'll dry in a couple of hours or less. Then you can apply your Park's Profinisher poly over that. NO BUFFING OR SANDING right now. After the first coat of poly is dry, lightly abrade/sand the floors, vacuum and tack and apply another coat of poly. You can apply even more coats if you want, but no more than four.


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 Post subject: white film
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:19 pm 
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Hi and thanks again! I'll try not to take up too much more of your time, but I just want to be sure I'm clear on the sanding sealer. On the Pro Finisher water-base poly label, it says "If applying stain, DO NOT use a sanding sealer. Apply water-base finish directly over thoroughly dry stain." That's why I didn't apply the sealer the first time around. So, sealer or no sealer?

I used lamswool on a wood block for the first few coats. It was hard to control though so I switched to a brush for the last coat. I don't know which worked better.

I'll switch to a different brand of finish if you think one is better for the novice.

Thanks for the instructions and of course for your time and help!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:06 am 
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Sealer and Sanding Sealer are two different things. Sanding sealer is for furniture, if anything. Parks Universal Sealer is dewaxed shellac meant for floors.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:28 am 
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Thank you!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:16 am
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Location: Milwaukee,WI
I used Parks Pro Finish several times early in my career because I didn't know better, but IMO the Parks Pro Finish sucks. It is very difficult to "spread" evenly, and it has a tendency to be very foamy/bubbly, and it has a slight milky appearence even after it's dry. If you have to get your finish from HD then at least use the Minwax water-based pro finish (in the black bottles). It costs a little more, but I've gotten decent results (similar to Basic's Emulsion) when I used it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:28 pm 
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Sorry accidently posted the same message twice and I didn't know how to delete it.


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