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 Post subject: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Got my floor yesterday, very impressed with Owens quality, long planks up to 7.5 feet some boxes has all 9 planks in 7.5 feet. Planning installation in couple weeks (thinking 3 weeks at least).
Can some one please describe what is the proper technique for Glue AND Staple installation. I tried to google it and can't find any info about it.


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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Basically it's just time consuming. The first installs I used the Bostik Best sausages, applied in a zig zag pattern on the substrate. I've heard of guys using Sika sausages, but the adhesive in the "sausage form" is ultra expensive,( not even sure if they make Bostik Best in sausage anymore).
Last few installs I've spread the adhesive right out of the can, row by row, full spread, using the front edge of the trowell. IMO it's a better install than a zig zag pattern with a cartridge or sausage anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:40 pm 
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thank you Floorologist for your reply. I can't find that Bostik's has a sausages but they do have Tubes (twice more expensive per gallon then bucket).
Time is something that i have.
I guess the challenge with applying row by row is to keep glue not wider then the width of the plank otherwise the base of the stapler/nailer will be all in the glue, not really sure how to do that cause the width of the trowell is wider then my plans (4")
Any other pro tricks?


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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:10 pm 
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I haven't done both, gluing AND stapeling on a 4" width. IMO one or the other, done right,(on that width), is sufficiant. All that I've done has been 6" & over. But there's nothing wrong with gluing and nailing a 4" width, if you want to. On that width...I would probably take a 3" putty knife and cut notches in it, to spread glue. Time consuming..But I chalk lines for each row.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:48 pm 
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it's a great idea to make your own trowel from putty knife or any other material: plastic, sheet of metal, etc.
was reading year old post and here is what i found http://www.hardwoodflooringtalk.com/forum/post31693.html?hilit=sika#p31693
Gary wrote:
If you do not want the hickory to move or make any noise, then glue it down and staple as well. I would use SIKA T-35 in the sausages running 1/4" beads every 5 to 6" across the backs of the boards. Then staple as well but not so much it's breaking tongues. You could use less staples because the adhesive is doing the work. The stapler will break tongues if the pressure is too high. If done correctly, you should have a solid, quiet installation. You could go with a full trowel adhesive application instead if the installer prefers that with a GOOD urethane floor adhesive.

it sounds slightly different then applying glue on full surface, just quarter beads every 5 - 6 inches i guess it also should work because of combination of glue and staples. Any comments on that?


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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:06 pm 
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sharaga wrote:
it's a great idea to make your own trowel from putty knife or any other material: plastic, sheet of metal, etc.
was reading year old post and here is what i found http://www.hardwoodflooringtalk.com/forum/post31693.html?hilit=sika#p31693
Gary wrote:
If you do not want the hickory to move or make any noise, then glue it down and staple as well. I would use SIKA T-35 in the sausages running 1/4" beads every 5 to 6" across the backs of the boards. Then staple as well but not so much it's breaking tongues. You could use less staples because the adhesive is doing the work. The stapler will break tongues if the pressure is too high. If done correctly, you should have a solid, quiet installation. You could go with a full trowel adhesive application instead if the installer prefers that with a GOOD urethane floor adhesive.

it sounds slightly different then applying glue on full surface, just quarter beads every 5 - 6 inches i guess it also should work because of combination of glue and staples. Any comments on that?


I didnt post on that thread. You have me mixed up with someone else.
Not sure what your asking me :?

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:16 pm 
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I know it's not you (it's Gary), just asking what you think about this technique? I am sorry it's probably not appropriate to ask one professional on another professional's opinion. I am just trying to get different opinion and not to clash professionals between each other. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:40 pm 
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sharaga wrote:
I know it's not you (it's Gary), just asking what you think about this technique? I am sorry it's probably not appropriate to ask one professional on another professional's opinion. I am just trying to get different opinion and not to clash professionals between each other. :wink:


No problem. Gary knows his stuff, probably better than anyone out there, but if I disagree, I'll let it be known. Us guys clash all the time in fun :)

As I said...I used the Bostik sausages,( when they were available), I did a zig zag pattern is the only difference. Full spread on a wide product IMO is that much better. Totally overkill on 4" IMO to staple and glue. I feel comfortable either nailing, stapeling, or full spread gluing a 4", no reason to do both, but it's your floor. Get into 3/4" and widths over 6" , different story.

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:15 pm 
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Well, if you are using a quality adhesive like Bostiks or Sika, you will basically be holding the flooring with the glue and the staples are really just holding the boards together while the adhesive cures. I've done full spreads and in some cases just made straight strips of adhesive maybe every 6 or 8 inches apart. In those cases , the strips of adhesive are perpendicular to the direction of the flooring.

If in doubt , go with a full spread.I use V notch trowels anywhere from 1/16" to 3/16" I had to use a 3/16" trowel recently over a concrete slab because the slab wasn't all that even in some spots. On a good sub floor, applying the glue in strips should hold 4" flooring like Mr. T holding a T-Bone steak.

The only real tricks are setting up to work efficiently as glue takes more time to spread and deal with. You should mark out and set your first row.I usually have tubes of adhesive as well as 2 or 5 gallon buckets .Sometimes, tube adhesive in a gun is a little neater for getting started.Whatever makes you comfortable.

Not that this is a trick but you should be racking out your floor ahead of the first row so that you can pull it back onto your glue as you spread it.You do not want to be figuring out which board fits where when you are spreading adhesive.

If you are using a pneumatic stapler , you can rig something to hold your air hose up a bit so it doesn't get into the glue.Once you have installed 7 or 8 rows, you can move your compressor and other tools onto the flooring .

You should probably be spreading enough glue to do about 3 rows or maybe more at a time. Spreading 1 row at a time will take a long time.So spread out as much adhesive as you feel you can cover with flooring in about 5 minutes.As you staple, work forward and then when you run out of boards to staple, then move to your left or right. Remember, you have your flooring pattern already racked out.

If you need to stop or take a break, lay flooring up to your adhesive line first. If you let adhesive sit for too long and it dries, you'll have a problem because it wont bond to the flooring.

I hope that helps you out

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Paul, What type of nailer are you using to keep the gun out of the glue, if your spreading 3 rows at a time?

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:10 am 
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Advanced Wood Floors wrote:
You should probably be spreading enough glue to do about 3 rows or maybe more at a time.

Paul, i have same question as Howard, how to keep stapler/nailer clean in this case?


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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:50 pm 
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Yeah Paul me too! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: what is a proper technuque for glue and staple installation?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:42 am 
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In thinking about this thread, I have only one comment (how unusual for me). At any hardware supply outlet you can get 3 inch spreaders with notches already cut into them. These, I believe are used by tile setters when doing backsplashes, etc. Just a thought.
And ya, put me on the list of those wondering how to keep the nailer clean when spreading multiple rows.

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