We had about 180 ft of red oak floor installed to match about 600 sq ft of existing floor, and all refinished to match. The install went quickly and came out excellent in my opinion.

We chose Bona Traffic satin as the finish. We also decided to go with a medium dark stain. The contractor used Bona's quick-dry stain, and we chose the Provincial since it seemed in the middle of not being too dark, and also not having the soft grain be so much darker than the rest (like the jacobean). We also paid him an additional $100 because he said that doing a darker stain was a longer process and more work (which made sense based on what I've read here).

Here's where things get sticky. On sand/finish day we got a call stating that they had a problem with his buffer chattering, and he'd have to come back to resand/refinish the floors in about a week and a half, because he was booked solid, and wanted to take the time to redo the job right. Even though it was inconvenient, (we aren't living there yet, but are delaying installing new trim and casings around the oak floors and carpet-in the rest of the house until the sanding dust is cleared).

So we had almost two weeks to live with the first-attempt floors with the provincial stain plus one coat of traffic. They had some major swirly waves in the wood in many places- I wish I had taken pictures. The stain came out very nice and consistant how we expected, based on the swatches and the small sample he laid down for us after sanding with 100 grit in a small area (we looked at early american, jacobean, and provincial as candidates). The swirls looked like waves in sections of 4-6 feet with spirals probably about 10-12" around.

On schedule he came back and sanded the floors all the way back down, and restained/refinished. I was at the house working that day and I watched them as they started to stain, on hands and knees with rags. I commented that it looked lighter this time- to which they responded, "it willl darken once it dries and the Traffic coats would also darken it (which niether seems to have happened after a few days). They did one coat of traffic the same day, and supposedly 2 more coats the next.

The problems now are:

1) the floors came out much lighter and with a lot more variation of color than the first round (somewhere between Jacobean in the soft grain, all the way to Natural/clear white in some of the harder grain). Had we not seen the first finish it may not have been so bad by comparision.

2) This time there are many circular edger marks that are very apparent around the edges because they have deep sanding (and they didn't hand sand after the edger), and the edges are also much darker and "evenly dark" much like the floors looked the first time (very consistent like the sample swatch is online). About the edger marks he said "that's pretty normal to have some picture framing from the machine around the edges" and something about the standards of the flooring association allowing for more than that, but that there were a couple spots that were bad enough he'd be willing to come back and fix.

They came back yesterday and offered two options a) do a really hard screening of the floor and restain/re-poly and b) go back and hand sand out the darker swirly edges and blend stain and finish into them so they don't stand out- and we live with the color we got which they still say is no different. They claim it's the same stain, and same color as last time, and don't know why it would look different. I think (after talking with Bona Tech Support) that they probably sanded/screened the floors too fine and/or burnished the grain so it didn't take the stain as consistently this time. I've read, and also heard from the Bona support guy that rescreening and staining is not a good idea because you risk not getting good adhesion.

The guy seems reputable, and like he wants to make it right, but I'm not sure what the best thing to do is at this point.

I am tempted to suggest that they sand them all the way back down AGAIN (since we've had to delay everything this long trying to get the floors right to begin with), and get the stain right BEFORE adding the poly this time. I think if we look closely we should be able to see any major machine marks and fix them BEFORE the poly. I'd probably at least offer to cover the additional materials at this point because I think they've tried to make it right, but I'm also concerned that we are reducing the "refinish" ability of the floors every time we sand another layer off. Basically the way I see it is we paid for it to be done right, and at this point they've asked for 1 redo, and we are entitiled to 1 too.

What say you flooring pros? Am I being a picky customer? How much "picture-framing" should there be? Should I give him a chance to "art in" the edges to fix the second finish so it's not hideous and live with the lighter stain and huge color variation (much to the chagrin of my S/O)? Should I ask for a partial refund and pay someone else to do the job right (unfortunately we did already pay him in full)? Is there some other fix that nobody has thought of yet?

Sorry for the long-winded novel. Thanks in advance for any input. I'll get some pictures tonight.

-Jason

For me, it is impossible to comment on finishing quality without being able to see the floor in question.

Hi Gary, thanks for the response. Do you mean pictures, or in person?

I just spoke with him on the phone and it looks like I am going to basically split the cost of materials for a 3rd refinish (at my suggestion) to meet him half way. He is also going to water pop this time so that the floors look more consistent (his suggestion).

I'm still a little concerned that we are wearing down the floors each sanding, but I think it will be worth it to get it looking right.

In person is best but quality pictures can be used as well. You can post a link to an online site like shutterfly or numerous others. If the floors are 3/4" thick, there is still lots of wood left for future refinishes.

The picture frame effect you mention should be very minimal at the least, however, your description of it may be subjective so pictures would surely help.
Not to worry about losing much flooring material with the additional sanding you have decided on.
Water popping the floor prior to staining is always a good idea, but wont overcome an improper sanding. The sanding prep is the key to a uniform stain job

http://s685.photobucket.com/albums/vv211/coloradojay/

I posted some pics at the link above.

A couple of questions:

Have a look at the zoomed bottom of the stairs (helps to zoom in) if this was in a corner, I wouldn't care, however this is a spot everyone will see any time they go to climb the stairs (note for scale that this is 3 1/4" oak). There are other places with this much or more sander marks, however this is the most conspicuous place. Would you say this is within acceptable standards?

How does this job look to you? If you had a finish job come out like this, would you feel responsible to fix it (especially after one do-over due to equipment failure)?

Do you think this could be remedied, with a touch up sanding/blending stain/recoat of just the effected edges?

Also- do you mask floor vents before sanding? If not, do you at least vacuum them out? This seemed pretty sloppy to me.


As I mentioned before my flooring contractor is planning to come out for a resand/stain tomorrow (and waterpopping this time), and I'm going to inspect the sand/stain job before any clear goes on. It took persuasion, and more money on my part to get this to happen though, so I'm still curious if my expectations are too high here.

Is there anything I should beware of with the water popping? I no longer really trust the job to come out right.

Well, its too bad about the halo around the perimeter, from what I can see; the sanding job is not bad. However the circular lines within the body of the floor would have been minimized by water-popping the floor prior to staining.
You appear to be a discerning client so I guess there are no options other than re-finishing; with more attention paid to detail.
I did have to zoom in on the pic of the stair area to see the swirls, but they ARE there, and shouldn't have been.
Good luck on the third attempt.

Reminder to self never to send clients to photobucket. The pop-ups are horrendous.

That floor looks ok to me, maybe you have to be there. One, site finished floors are not to be like a table top finish. Two, defects must be plainly seen fraom a standing position.

I clearly see the edger lines, next to the wall, from the stain job taking more stain where the edger missed.

Hardwood floor finishers dislike seeing circular sanding marks, whether they are from the edger or buffer or some other machine. However, on most jobs, they are present to some degree. Usually, or preferably, they are minimal and are not easily noticed. When a floor is stained, they can show much more. To me, it appears the finisher made little attempt at minimizing the "edger" marks by hand or with a ROS and instead, screened the floor heavily in an attempt to remove edger marks. This can sometimes work but not usually. The light and darker stained areas are examples of why this doesn't always work, with the darker areas where the buffer and screen could not get to very well. Overall, the job isn't terrible ( I've seen way worse ) but it is not flawless either. If he/she has already agreed to re-do it, then just let him/her. If you are feeling generous, you might consider offering something for the finisher re-doing the job.

Thanks for all the input. We stopped in briefly last night and the difference with the water-popping is drastic. The color is much more even looking.

They look the way we had hoped now, and without walking on them, I think all the obvious flaws are handled. I'll post some more pics when I get a chance.

Funny how one missing step can make the difference between a good job and a poor job.