Hi, Im thinking about buying and installing your Patagonian Rosewood in 5" plank. I have never installed Hardwood before and From what Ive read this stuff is pretty hard. I know I need a floor nailer and a good saw, any special blades or instucions for this type of wood.



Thanks
Craig

PS anyone have pictures of a this floor installed.

Brand new carbide blades would be a must--preferably thin kerf. Considering the hardness you'll almost break your arm with a manual nailer. Pics? We sold 400 sf two weeks ago--maybe I can get the buying customer to send us pics but I'm unsure of when it's being installed.

Thanks Ken, Any brand preferance on saw blades and would a power stapler be better than cleats.

fitzter,

Any name brand carbide finish blade is OK. But what kind of saw are talking here, miter saw or circular saw? Even a 12" miter saw has only about 5" of capacity at 45 degrees - I don't know if all of your cuts are 90 degrees but this is something to keep in mind.

Staples have been proven to hold better than cleats but I read that they hold too well in some situations and the board cracks when it expands. Without an expert telling me that staples are acceptable I would stick with cleats since they have a long track record. Perhaps Gary can advise you on this.

Also, have you considered any or all of the following:

1. Subfooring suitability - with 16" OC joists and 5" plank you need at least 7/8" ply subfloor for 5" plank, not to mention your flatness requirements.
2. MC of existing subflooring or new subflooring and flooring itself. I wouldn't install 1000's of dollars of flooring without a moisture meter.
3. Layout, joist direction, starting row. I screw down a guide board to get a straight first row especially with wide boards.
4. Reducers, if you are using any. What type will they be - T&G or overlap. The T&G type, although it looks better than overlap may be harder to pull off without a miter saw.

I mention all of this because as important as many of these issues are with 2&1/4" strip, they are all the more critical with plank.

I would read the info at nofma.org thoroughly before starting.

That Patagonian Rosewood is some hard stuff. You will want a pnuematic nailer. When I've done those very hard woods, it seems the fasteners have a difficult time. Sometimes they bend, break, split the wood, etc. You just have to do your best. Cleats may work better, they don't hold better but they may penetrate easier and not cause splitting as much. I usually use staples as that is the nailer I have. You may want to consider gluing as well as nailing that 5" solid plank. It increases the cost but your floor will be quieter and less prone to movement, especially if your subfloor is OSB. Speaking of subfloors, the NWFA and NOFMA requirement for plank floors is 3/4" plywood or OSB over joist spaced 16" oc. As far as a finish nailer, Bostitch makes a new 15 gauge finish nailer that is great. I don't recall the model # but tried it at a demonstration at a distributors. It easily put a 2" nail into a solid 1&1/8" Brazilian Cherry stair tread. Very powerful and lightweight. I'd have bought one but I have two Senco's already. As far as saw blades, Freud, Dewalt, Makita, are all good but the blades that are the most bang for your buck are the Marathon blades by Irwin. As Ken says, get a thin kerf with about 40 teeth for a 10" blade. Too many teeth (80 for fine cutting) with go slower and too little (24) will have a jagged cut and splinter the wood. Have fun!

You're right. I thought I saw the 7/8" requirement on NOFMA but turns out I saw it in a table in Bollingers book. In fact he calls out 1" for square edge ply, 7/8" for T&G ply in the case of 4" to 8" plank. Don't know where he got this as there is no reference.

His opinion! Why not make it 1&1/8" T&G plywood over trusses 16" OC? Now theres a stout subfloor!

Thanks for the Tips,
Gary ,I think my subfloor is 5/8 ply on 16" centers. The glue sounds like a good idea, but if I have to put felt paper down whats the glue stick to? Is there a certain kind of glue or will liquid glue work?
alexh,Thanks for the help. Can I rent a moisture meter from someplace or buy one cheap. I known I have to let the wood set for a week or so before installing ,doesnt that adjust the moisture in the wood to the house.
Im going to be using a 10" miter saw, I dont think there will be any 45 cuts but it looked like it should handle it if I did.


Thanks you guys are great.
Craig

You can get a moisture meter for about $100. I got mine on ebay.

I suppose if you live in area with relatively low rainfall, have gutters and good drainage around the house and crawlspace is dry you won't have a problem. Of course acclimating the wood to interior conditions is necessary but sometimes the subfloor is the culprit. If you have to add to or repair your subfloor be especially careful because everything from the big orange store is high moisture content - I think they leave the stuff in the rain. Also, the place where I bought my flooring had huge pallets of flooring stored outside. It was covered with plastic but that's kind of scary. If flooring gets to a really high MC it will likely be permanently warped even if acclimated. The moisture meter is kind of like wearing a seatbelt.

My previous house had 5/8" ply throughout and all of the tile grout continuosly cracked because it was not stiff enough(I forget if it was 16" OC or 24" OC). It should be illegal to build houses with 5/8" ply. I would at least go around and note any areas that have noticeable deflection and consider adding blocking from underneath. I think 2" cleats may be borderline for 5/8" ply. It's my understanding that you don't want the cleats poking through the subfloor although I have heard it's fairly common (don't bump your head on the subfloor when you're underneath the house - ouch!).


Just don't take any risks - you should see all of the posts on other forums from homeowners that had hardwood professionally installed complaining of poor quality. I just saw a professionally installed 3&1/4" maple that had cupping near an exterior sliding door. Probably someone left the door open while it was raining then it was sanded before the floor could re-acclimate. Now the cup is permanent (If true, it was actually a crown before the sanding).

Good Luck

If you have a raised wood foundation with a crawl space, you will need to install a polyethylene vapor barrier on the ground in the crawl space of the entire house. It is a hassle but should be done. With good lot drainage and proper foundation vents, along with the poly vapor barrier, you do not need an asphalt vapor retarder on the subfloor IF you are gluing as well as nailing. Most manufacterers and installers use and recommend Bostick's Best urethane adhesive. It is not an easy glue to work with due to the difficulty of cleanup. Franklin Advantage is another option but it is not any easier. I would avoid any water based glues as that will cause the flooring to cup. As far as your subfloors are concerned, I have worked on 5/8" that were quite sound and ridgid enough, and others that were flimsy. Renailing may help. And you could lay another layer of 3/8" or 1/2"
CDX plywood to stiffen things up. With 5/8", you should be barely OK if you renail, and glue and nail the flooring down.

I have a full basement and live in the midwest(Missouri). I was wrong about the subfloor, taking out a register let me measure it again and it is 3/4. it does get pretty humid in the summer and dry in the winter, I have a humidifier built into my furnace that should help keep it stable year round.
The large width of the planks still scares me alittle, so I think the glue is a good idea and worth the additinal cost. I already learned a valuable lessen with water base glue. Put a vynale floor in my sisters bathroom and it caused the plywood to seperate in spots where the glue was to heavy.


Thanks
Craig