I need a waiver for customers who are interested in doing installations correctly.There was a discussion ,where someone mentioned a waiver that would stand up in court (if needed).

Don't you mean "incorrectly"?

It has to be written in job specific terms. And even then it depends on the way the judge's feeling that day.

The judge looks as you as the professional. Your better off passing on the job if your not comfortable.

Yes i did mean "incorrectly".Is there a waiver? In this case customer has numerous dips in concrete slab.I went over the whole floor marking every one that was out of tolerance.After discussing the matter with the homeowner (house is for sale)they decided to not do the floor prep.There is a waiver form I found on this forum from the NWFA.Is this the one to use?The verbage sounds perfect,but i have to change "hardwood" to "laminate" in the waiver.Has anyone used this?

I'd have to see it, can you post a link to it? If it's from NWFA then why does it have laminate in it?

I'd like to see it also. I have a job coming up, ( 24th floor ) that I know is going to have to be floated. They're pulling up the carpet, and we're meeting again. I have the wood install, but were meeting to go over prep. I already mentioned the tolerance to him, and I know he doesnt want to spend the bucks to float.
I know I said "if you dont feel comfortable pass". But here I am not wanting to pass

It doesn't have "laminate" on it .It says hardwood,but couldn't that be changed to whatever flooring is in question?

Seems like it, but wouldn't want to commit without seeing it. Can you post a link ?

This is what I've used in the past. Keep in mind, the courts see you as the professional. If you perform a service for a fee, and it does not meet industry standards, the courts can find you liable, even if you have a waiver. However, I have never had a customer challenge me in court or the waiver they signed. You can change the mention of "hardwood floor" to say whatever floor covering or product you wish. Good luck.

WAIVER OF RESPONSIBILITY

Customer__________________________ Jobsite Address__________________________



Contract # and date_______________________


Conditions and/or subsurface structure on the above referenced job have been found to be at variance with acceptable conditions necessary to extend our usual guarantee on the hardwood flooring we have contracted to install. The condition(s) noted are:

______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________

This is to advise you that we will not proceed with the installation until the conditions described above have been corrected, except on your specific instructions. Your countersignature below confirms your instructions to proceed and confirms that you assume full responsibility for defects in the completed installation and/or finished hardwood floor which may arise from these conditions.

Flooring Contractor______________________________________________________________


Customer’s Signature_____________________________________________________________


General Contractor’s Signature_____________________________________________________

I got that one as well Gary, if you put your lettrhead on it it makes it look more professional and job specific. Works for me. Also in the variance area to be filled in specify the industry standard as well as what is out of variance.

This looks great. Have you guys had to use it in a court situation ?

Yes, I agree. I always use my business letterhead for business docs.



No, I have never been to court over a job performance. When I had a partnership years ago, we were sued, along with others, over a worker getting injured on the job. That never went to court as the insurance companies settled.

IMO, different states and areas have different attitudes re: consumer protection. In CA, the consumer is often seen as "the victim" and a contractor as a villain. The courts position many times, is that a consumer cannot sign away their right to protection under the law. And the the contractor is the professional and therefore, should never agree to perform substandard work.

If I am aware of a problem before I begin a job, I will request it to be fixed by me or someone else. If the customer refuses, I will not take the job. If I have already signed a contract and a problem arises afterwards, then I'll say it needs fixing or I need a waiver signed. The general contractors never agree to a waiver so they will authorize me to repair the problem, if I can. Homeowners have sometimes said, "I have no more money. Do the best you can." Then I get the waiver signed. It doesn't mean they cannot still take me to court. But it does show to a court that I informed the customer of the problem and the customer refused to pay to fix it. How a court would rule in that case could go either way, depending on previous presedence.

I have composed several waivers. They have never been signed. What has been signed, is the change order.

People hate to be told, "I told you so"

I have only been in court one time , trying to collect from a deadbeat. He never showed, went BK on me a day before the court date.

I imagine different states do look at these waivers differently. IMO the waivers are bogus in CA, and probably in LV,NV. Maybe I get my view from my father's experiences. In CA, he used different waivers for 47 years, and swore by them. He had a big operation. In court all the time, and never learned . The judge always sided with the consumer, stating "You are the professional", closed case.

Hence my first responce. " Your better off passing on the job, if your not comfortable.

An example of how the courts up here can behave:

Our standard contract includes among many other things, a clause that states that we cannot be help responsible for damage to concealed pipes if they are not installed to code, or have not been informed of their existance prior to installation.

We installed a kitchen floor for a customer, under the subfloor was an air-conditioning line fastened to the bottom of the sub-floor. Our initial inspection did not reveal this since the basement ceiling was drywalled. Of course we hit it with a nail, what else. We offered to pay for the repair to the line, even though we felt it wasnt our responsibility. However, she wanted compensation for the aggravation, mental stress, and a hotel stay while the work was being carried out.

The judge sided with her.