We're having white oak floors sanded and refinished. After a fair amount of research, I had thought I'd go with Traffic (we wanted a low-VOC product, no oil). However, one of the flooring professionals said he'd had better results with VerMeister, a brand I hadn't come across before. Looking at their website, I'm most interested in the Idro 2K and Hi-Tech 2K products (although somewhat intrigued by Velvet).

I didn't see VerMeister mentioned much recently on this forum. Around 2007 Gary said he preferred Idro 2K over Traffic, but since then I've mostly seen references to the latter. Any more recent experiences? Pros and cons vs. Traffic?

Also, I had planned on using Bona AmberSeal to kinda-sorta match the color of some non-adjacent floors that are still in good shape. I see VerMeister has a similar sealer called Flame, but it's a two-component product, so presumably more durable. I had previously thought I'd use 1 coat AmberSeal + 3 coats Traffic; now I'm considering 1 coat Flame + 2 coats Hi-Tech 2K. Again, any guidance? Many thanks,

Lee

Lee ---- Depending on your location, also consider another professional quality waterborne hardwood floor finish: Pallmann. Pallmann is relatively new to the U.S. (3 years) but has been in business in Europe for the past 100 years, in fact, they sell more finishes in Europe than Bona (Traffic). Their products are low-VOC and extremely durable and in some cases they have some unique features not matched in the Bona or Vermeister line. Their Pall-X 96 1 component waterborne finish is considered a commercial grade finish in Europe but here it is sold at a price point that is extremely competitive with lower quality finishes. Their 2 component product, Pall-X 98, cures 100% in 4 days (compared with 7-10 days for all others) and another feature that contractors like is its 24-hour pot life that means no waste factor.

My Background? I was the finish product manager at BonaKemi for the past 9 years both testing and applying Bona's and competitive finishes. Without question, I would put the Pallmann Pall-X 96 1 component product up against any competitor as the superior finish. If you are looking for additional durability, the Pall-X 98 is unrivalled in my opinion. Also, Pallmann manufactures an extremely low VOC oil/wax hybrid finish that is extremely durable, Magic Oil (its a 2 component product). Its VOC content is 9 VOC! It gives that European hand-rubbed appearance that some people desire these days. For more information, visit the UFLOOR Systems website at ufloorsystems.com or

Edited by admin: no phone numbers

Thanks.

Hi, Captain,

Can I assume you work for Pallmann/UFLOOR now? Captain Kirk?

I think it would be advisable for you to explicitly reveal industry ties in the future. By the way, tell your webmaster that your URL didn't work at first, until I prefixed it with "www."

The Pall-X 98 Product Data Sheet (http://www.uzin-utz.com/uzin/Produkte/Dokumente/11655.pdf) clearly states a 5-hour pot life after mixing, and a 7-day curing period. The specs on the web site look decent, similar to Traffic and VerMeister as far as I can tell, with slightly higher VOCs. Regardless, I'm not likely to try something that my flooring folks don't have experience with, even if I'd been given a very positive unbiased opinion. I assume that if this one had used Pallmann and liked it, he would have recommended it rather than VerMeister; but I might check with the others bidding for the job.

Anyone have any VerMeister vs. Traffic wisdom for me? Thanks,

--Lee

Yes I now work for UFLOOR Systems and we will have a new spec sheet uploaded shortly on the Pall-X 98 that will state a 24 hour pot life and a 4 day cure. Let me know who your contractor is so that I can have him try some of our product to give him some experience with it. Thanks.

As far as a biased opinion, since I've applied most if not all of the competitive products on the market I feel I have a pretty good idea of their performance.

You may call me if you would like... I'd love to discuss any of Pallmann's or the competitive products further with you.

Take care.

edited by admin: No Phone numbers

Based on the estimates I got, I'm going with a Contractor A, who uses Traffic. I originally specified 1 coat AmberSeal + 3 coats Traffic. But, I'm still considering an alternative: getting just 2 coats Traffic, then having Contractor B, who recommended VerMeister, come a day or two later and lay down 1 coat of Hi-Tech 2K on top. I'm hoping that will give me the benefits of the Hi-Tech 2K scratch resistance, at a more affordable cost. Does this seem reasonable, or is it a recipe for disaster? Thanks,

--Lee

Product compatibility might be a factor. I can't say for sure. But sufficient drying time will be needed before you put a different finish over the traffic

I haven't used the other finish but have used a great deal of traffic.I apply it with the Bona roller and lay it on very heavy.Approximately 380 sq feet per gallon.it doesn't bubble, foam or give me problems and I've found it to be nearly as hard as moisture cure urethane.If you;re already going to the trouble of using traffic for two coats, I think I'd recommend just getting a 3rd rather than bringing in another contractor. This assumes that the 2nd contractor is okay with your idea.

In the end , it is your project, do whatever you feel makes you happy

Thanks for your advice. As it happens, Contractor B didn't seem interested, so I ended up sticking with the original plan. Just as well -- Contractor A didn't do a very good job on the edge sanding, and it took us several days to negotiate, which would have made scheduling Contractor B very tough. In the end, we settled on a 25% price reduction, since we couldn't spare the time to redo the job before we needed to move in.

Hopefully the floors will hold up reasonably well for many years (I don't know how heavy the coats were), and next time we'll get it done better. By then, there should be a whole new generation of products to choose from . Thanks again!

In 15 years of sanding and finishing floors, I have only seen about 9 or 10 that impressed me (by other companies) And frankly, I think my old boss is a hack as well. He taught me a lot of what not to do.

If you ever have floor sanding and finishing done again, get contractual promises that there will not be machine marks in the wood and there wont be swirl marks in the finish.I don't normally promise that in a contract but if I were asked to, I would certainly agree to the terms because I know I deliver that kind of quality. Sorry about your experience but I hope you enjoy your home.

PALLMAN WATERBOURNE IS THE GREATEST