Tarkett-Engineered Longstrip, stamped "2006" on the back. Go ahead- laugh. But I got 1200+ sq.ft. of it for a song, and I mean a short, sweet song. IT's beautiful too, and I figure I got $6000 worth of wood for, well, a song. My wife and I just bought a house, and we were pricing wood floors- yeah, we don't have $6500.00+ for floors. The area to be installed is 1250sq.ft.

I used to install hardwood, refinish it, etc. I even did some Bamboo Glue-down over concrete, which turned out perfectly.

So, the wood is 9/16" thick, 7&1/2" wide, 7&1/2' long. The instructions are for either:glue-down, floating, or staple-down methods. My subfloor is 3/4" plywood with another 1/4" plywood nailed over that with ringshanks. The house is on piers, some as high as 5' off grade.

I can find NOTHING on the Internet about this flooring. The tools that are in the installation manual, the Tarkett 1205 adapter for the Bostitch M111FS stapler, the PF-50 or PF-50/65 glue(even the tarktool, which I could just substitute a pry-bar ); none of this exists anymore, except the stapler of course, which I would have to buy.

This is for my own home. The tongues don't quite fit, so I will have to use a slot-cutting router bit to widen them to the 3/16" they need to be. No problem. But to be honest, I have no idea how to install. Glue or Staples? If staple, will crown staples do, or do I need 1/2" by 1-1/2" staples? I can't just rent a Bostich stapler, so I will have to buy one. Underlayment: I think I got it after scouring this website, so no problem there. And I mean it when I say I have gone all the way back to the 15th page, which was 2004.

If I glue down, which glue do I use? How much will I need for 1200 sq.ft.?

I have read every post on Tarkett, glueing, etc. I have also read that boards over 3" wide should be glued down, but I am assuming that is for hardwood, not engineered. So, what should I do? I really want this to turn out great. I have put a lot of thought and time into it. I have a work shop, Powermatic Cabinet saw and the like, and I know how to use them Been wood working for 30+ years, so tools/experience aren't an issue.

But it's the Staple -vs- glue down that's got me. Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter. And sorry for the long post. I just wanted to put everything in here that I could think of so the easy questions would be out of the way. Thanks for your time.

That older Tarkett product was definitely milled tight, to the point it never needed the strap clamps many products need today. That's why you're seeing the tight fit or they "don't quite fit." To install that older product it took a heavy duty tapping block and a serious blow or two and three times to get it to engage tight. After that it never separated.

Or perhaps it's an issue with storage and the fit got tighter? It's swelled, or picked up moisture? I never tried stapling but have done a few gluedowns. Stay away from adhesives that are arm breakers like Bostiks Best. I would suggest one where boards can slide a bit easier. I used DriTac 6200 on a couple of them but make sure the adhesive flashes enough.

Now that I think more on the subject...stay away from gluedown. It's a real tough nut to crack. It will drive you bananas with frustration because of the fit.

Kahrs still makes the best board puller or tark tool.

http://www.kahrsstore.com/kalabopu.html

2nd to last paragraph: That's a reference to solid products like you guessed.

you got them for a song because no one installs them and I surpised if they are even in business anymore. they used to be Harris Tarkett flooring.
no oine distributes them here in NJ anymore and I d be surprised to see them in any retailers as well.

I suspect you will have a failure with those materials..
the failure will be a cupping issue..

those are the old floating lines.

probably represents a 3 board pattern.

did many of them back in the day..they look like butt in my opinion.
if they are not going together after a light tap with a cut piece of scrap
and mallet I believe the issues will be greater.

a snug fit is good..tight is not..if they are not going together that means there is an milling issue and it will show not only in the T&G but in material widths as well.

I installed a fair amount of this product, back-when. By far I preferred stapling 1/2" crown. Use 1-1/2 x 1-1/2 x 6" tapping block & use the metal end of your mallet to strike. This product held up well. I installed in a relatives home & it took a lot of abuse. (maple)

I would add..

if you re rout the grooves then the only install I see that would be fasible is to fully glue down.

I wouldn't trust the T&G after being altered and then nailing as the floor may squeak.

if the boards aren't going together ,again..its a milling issue which I believe will reveal itself further as you install.

It was the nature of the beast. I recall watching some guys at the 2004 NWFA show put together (floater) about 150 SF for a display floor. They used some kind of sanding block to ease/loosen the tongue and groove fit. But the product was much easier to work with back in the 90's. It was also a better company..now they've become Harris Wood after a few too many ownership changes...

http://harriswoodfloors.com/

I'm sure what you have will work for the best!

It's actually a real stable floor with a nice top, . It has a wood filet core vs a plywood core which is part of the reason its a pain in the ass to beat together. If its been in storage for the last 7 years you may just need to bring it into a heated space. id staple it down over a good vapor retarder and move on.

- To be honest, I have tried several boards, and tried to beat them together, but there was still a 1/16" gap that I just couldn't close. I have studied the wood, measured and so on. I have also had the wood in my house acclimating for over a month, but no dice. If you look at the groove, you can see where the groove is almost 1/16" too narrow. It's almost "fuzzy". It's the plywood they used to wafer it together. Imagine you cut a groove in the end of some plywood, but leave about a fingernail width uncut. It will be sort of fuzzy, since the wood isn't really solid. Since the tongue is 3/16" exactly, I figured I could run the boards through my router with a 3/16" slot-cutting bit, taking off the "fuzz".
Perhaps I could glue the edges together when I install? The floating floor installation tells you to do just this. In my experience, when I have done joinery, the glue actually causes the wood to swell just a bit, especially on biscuits, so it seems to me it would make for very tight joints. Thoughts?


- The only issue I have with this is finding the stapler. I can rent one at Home Depot, but the staples are 15 gauge, and I fear these will just tear the wood up, or cause dimpling. 18 gauge is the minimum I can use I think. It's funny, because you can buy the staples you talk about at HD, but you can't buy the stapler , unless you go online. I just don't have $300 for a stapler I will only use one time. Will the 18 gauge staples work in the 15 gauge stapler? This is of course, a real floor stapler that you use with a compressor and mallet.


- Well, the boards are all still in their original packages, banded together and sealed in plastic. Have been in a warehouse, sitting, not climate-controlled, and their is no cupping or warping. I did look them over, and took a few out of a box. Inspected, then walked away. That's when they called me back and made me the offer I couldn't refuse. I don't think I'll have a problem with cupping. And yes, they are the '3-board pattern'. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with them.

All, I appreciate all of the answers. I know I have my work cut out for me. It looks as if I will be milling the grooves, stapling the boards down while glueing the edges. As for the underlayment, does anyone have experience with this- http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fortifiber-500-sq-ft-AQUABAR-B-Tile-Underlayment-Roll-70-195/202592567? I could use roofing felt I guess, but the smell and the mess... rather not. Plus, at $.04 a roll, it will only cost me about $75. If I do edge glue, what do you recommend? Will Tightbond wood glue do the trick, or do I need to go with something made for this sort of thing? I really appreciate all of the responses. You have no idea how much this helps.

The Aquabar b is all I use. No you can't use the 18ga in a 15ga gun, your best bet is to find one on EBAY or Craig's list then resell it. Try regrooving a few sample boards and if your happy then that is what counts. I wouldn't glue the edges if you are stapling only if you are going to float it.

The cupping will happen after installation..once exposed to heating..count on it.

the gaps are just as I suspected and will increase in amount and size as you go.

What you put under depends on how you install.

are you nailing? gluing down or floating?

if it is matter of just boards not being completely strait which will definitely be the case here, you may need some flooring straps to ratchet them closed but you can only use them if you are floating.

otherwise you will love with gaps.

Titebond is fine..use titebond II ..there are specific T & G adhesives now but back in the day Titebond was used all the time.

I will reiterate..if you remill you best off gluing.

harris Tarkett had some serious manufacturing issues some years back.

their core materials vs their bottom and top layer veneers were all wrong and once exposed to heating sources, the top layer would shrink causing it tp pull the rest of the board up..thus the cup.

it is a dry cupping issue..

Trust me on this.if im wrong so be it.. but I smell it coming.

Thanks Jeff. Since I am just taking the "fuzz" off the inside of the grooves, I figure it will still be a tight fit. And thanks also for the underlayment answer. As for the gun, what would you recommend? There are staplers that are specifically designed for Engineered wood, but they don't have the Mallet/Striker, and the ones I have seen for rent only use 1/4" wide staples. It's either that, or use the 15 gauge, and as I said, I am afraid those size staples will cause more problems.


Well, in light of your post, I am a bit worried now, but I have to proceed. In the end, since I got it so cheap, I figure I can always remove it later down the road and put in new flooring. The wife and I prefer real hardwood anyway. But for now, we can't just live on plywood, and with what I paid for the flooring, it will be no big deal. I think due to the overwhelming responses I have had, I will be stapling, so an underlayment will be needed. Thanks a lot for your input.

All good Sonict and for whats it worth, I hope im wrong and it goes smoothly.

good luck

the materials shold be minimal 9/16 thick if I remember and are probably 13/16..

you can put a boot on your standard nailer..turn down pressure to 85-90lbs and not beat the hell out of it..you will staple it down no problem..

either that or geta trigger actuated stapler.

those engineered flooring staplers suck..

Well, all of the flooring staplers I can find are 15 gauge, except for the ones specifically made for engineered wood, which are basically a crown stapler with a shoe on them . Problem is, they just shoot 1/4" staples. That will be a problem, no? Like I said in an earlier response, I can buy the 18 gauge 1/2" staples for a flooring stapler, but I don't seem to be able to locate the stapler they go to. All of the ones I have seen shoot 15 gauge, and I was told on here that a 15 gauge stapler will not shoot 18's.


Are you saying that I can put a boot/shoe on my crown stapler and use it, even though they are only 1/4" staples?


The boards are exactly 9/16" thick, though the tongue is only 1/4" thick, 3/8" long, with about another 1/8" of space between the bottom of the tongue and the floor. So it would have to be a perfect nail shooting through or it really won't catch anything.

I really appreciate the time you have taken to respond by the way. You have been a big help. It's funny, I know a lot about woodworking, have done it for years (I do Web Design and Development now), but this has been something else. I like to do things right the first time so that I don't have to go back and fix it later, or God forbid, have to always be working on it. Anyway, thanks again. I know Mrs. sonict will be pleased once this is all done.