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 Post subject: Subfloor Question (Ugent Help Needed)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:40 am 
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Hellow Everyone!

Background Info:

I'm a newbie with flooring, but am pretty handy. I am planning to lay my subflloor (3/4 plywodd over concrete) today and am wondering if I am prepared. I have the following tools: circular saw, jigsaw, and powder nail actuator / nails. I also have some questions about the implementation.

My Specific Question(s):

1. The NOFMA Hardwood Installation Guide recommends laying the plywood in a diagonal pattern to "prevent cracks associated with panel edges". Does this really need to be layed in a diagonal pattern? This would mean more cuts.

2. What do you guys use for small cuts around door jambs? I have a jigsaw. Will that work?

3. My subflooring is 3/4 inch thick, but the powder nails I could buy only came in 1 1/2" or 2". If I use the 1 1/2 inch nails, only 3/4" (or slightly less because of two layers of paper) would go into the concrete. The powder nailer actuator recommends at least 1" going into the concrete. Should I use the 2" nails? Would that be too much for the concrete? Would it shatter the concrete?

4. I'm installing the 3/4" subfloor and 3/4" Brazillian Walnut (IPE - Solid Wood) in my family room and office. There is an adjoining bathroom in the area that I plan to tile. Should I run the subfloor into the bathroom also and then tile over the plywood later? I am thinking this will help with keeping things at the same height. The ceiling is a little lower in the bathroom so I am a little worried about losing 1 1/2" of vertical height (3/4" plywood + 3/4" planks). What do you guys think? If I don't go into the bathroom, will I be able to threshold the transition from the higher family room to the lower bathroom?

5. Based on the background info I provided above, does it sound like I have the right tools? Do I need a table saw? or should I rip all of the plywood with the circular saw?

My Plan (for reference):

1. Prime and apply cold-type asphalt cut-back mastic
2. Lay down 15 lb asphalt paper (overlapping edges 2 - 4")
3. Put down another layer of asphalt mastic.
4. Put down another layer of asphalt paper
5. Lay down 3/4" plywood as a subfloor
6. Powder nail the subfloor to the concrete (nailing through the layers of asphalt paper and asphalt mastic).
7. Put more asphalt mastic over the plywood.
8. Lay down another layer of asphalt paper.
9. Lay down the planks.

Any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated (even if you can only answer some of my questions).


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Amish made hardwood

 Post subject: Re: Subfloor Question (Ugent Help Needed)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:44 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Austin
guru10cea wrote:
Hellow Everyone!

Background Info:

I'm a newbie with flooring, but am pretty handy. I am planning to lay my subflloor (3/4 plywodd over concrete) today and am wondering if I am prepared. I have the following tools: circular saw, jigsaw, and powder nail actuator / nails. I also have some questions about the implementation.

My Specific Question(s):

1. The NOFMA Hardwood Installation Guide recommends laying the plywood in a diagonal pattern to "prevent cracks associated with panel edges". Does this really need to be layed in a diagonal pattern? This would mean more cuts.

2. What do you guys use for small cuts around door jambs? I have a jigsaw. Will that work?

3. My subflooring is 3/4 inch thick, but the powder nails I could buy only came in 1 1/2" or 2". If I use the 1 1/2 inch nails, only 3/4" (or slightly less because of two layers of paper) would go into the concrete. The powder nailer actuator recommends at least 1" going into the concrete. Should I use the 2" nails? Would that be too much for the concrete? Would it shatter the concrete?

4. I'm installing the 3/4" subfloor and 3/4" Brazillian Walnut (IPE - Solid Wood) in my family room and office. There is an adjoining bathroom in the area that I plan to tile. Should I run the subfloor into the bathroom also and then tile over the plywood later? I am thinking this will help with keeping things at the same height. The ceiling is a little lower in the bathroom so I am a little worried about losing 1 1/2" of vertical height (3/4" plywood + 3/4" planks). What do you guys think? If I don't go into the bathroom, will I be able to threshold the transition from the higher family room to the lower bathroom?

5. Based on the background info I provided above, does it sound like I have the right tools? Do I need a table saw? or should I rip all of the plywood with the circular saw?

My Plan (for reference):

1. Prime and apply cold-type asphalt cut-back mastic
2. Lay down 15 lb asphalt paper (overlapping edges 2 - 4")
3. Put down another layer of asphalt mastic.
4. Put down another layer of asphalt paper
5. Lay down 3/4" plywood as a subfloor
6. Powder nail the subfloor to the concrete (nailing through the layers of asphalt paper and asphalt mastic).
7. Put more asphalt mastic over the plywood.
8. Lay down another layer of asphalt paper.
9. Lay down the planks.

Any help that can be provided would be greatly appreciated (even if you can only answer some of my questions).





1.) Yes
2.) Yes
3.) Never used one, only used Tapcons, when I didn't know how to float the subfloor.
4.) I wouldn't do it that way. But I guess it could be done
5.) Plywood is easier done with a circular saw.

Your plan...
Between step 4 & 5, I always put down a layer of 6-mil plastic, sealed at any seams with clear packing tape.
#7 needs to be deleted. It is not needed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:02 pm
Posts: 622
Location: Florida
I think this newbie needs to RE-read the NOFMA standards. He's confused.

They are found at www.norma.org/publications

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Ray Darrah
Hardwood Floor Inspections. Laminate & Tile Floors


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:56 am
Posts: 9
Thanks AustinFloorGuy. I picked up some 6 mil plastic and was considering it for the top layer. It seems like the Nofma guide was stating I should do #7 and #8 because my slab is "at grade" (not above grade). It did seem like overkill to me though. I'll do as you suggested if you think it is OK for "at grade" slab. It would certainly reduce my burden to just through down the 6 mil at that point.

Ray Darrah,

Can you elaborate a little bit? I know that section is a little confusing because of the way it is written. If you don't play close attention, you may do the procedure for a slab "above grade". Can you let me know where I am getting confused.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:44 am
Posts: 3509
Location: Austin
On grade(3 "above the soil) and above grade are basically the same thing. It is the Below grade that will bite you bad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:10 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:32 am
Posts: 299
Location: Yakima, WA
Do not run plywood as an underlayment for tile! :shock:

If you need to make up a height difference run radiant heat electric system under the tile for added luxurious warmth under foot and then float with tile thinset to the height you need for the tile transition to be flush. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:56 am
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Quote:
run radiant heat electric system under the tile for added luxurious warmth under foot


Oooh... That does sound nice! I've gotta give that some thought... especially if I don't kill myelf tyring to put this floor in...

Barquios,

Do you have any thoughts on my other post? This is currently were I am at with the install --> http://www.hardwoodflooringtalk.com/php ... php?t=6165


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