I've deffinetely installed a few brands where the darn blue tape didnt want to adhere great to the finish. Even after going over ther floor with the 150 pound roller! But that wood sounds like a nightmare, thanks for the warning. Dont use duct tape whatever you do, the Bruce rep will love to see that

The only problem I really have with the blue tape is the price. I'ts about 6.50-7.00 out here in vegas. I guess I use about 6 rolls per 1000 sq. ft. That's not too bad, but it adds up. I'm working on getting my hands on good quality 1 1/2" blue tape at a killer price. I'll let you all know what I find.

How much are you guys paying for blue tape ???

Howard

$3.92 for 2 inch, (CAD) = $4.49 USD currently

I'll only use blue tape anymore on the first couple rows and the last few where I must work on top of the floor. Working off the floor leaves less of a mess. Note the use of unset planks on the end joints across the room.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13772863@N08/3197146821/

(It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image.) what the *%#$&% ing *^*&%#$ ell now! I give up posting images. LOL

I have been paying $3. 25 for a roll of 1½" 3M at Lowe's or HD

Looks like we're getting ripped off here in Las Vegas. Maybe I'm the only one that needs to find a better deal on blue tape !

I probably use so much tape because I find it a lot quicker to install when I'm on top of the wood,( I kneel on empty boxes ) pulling planks toward me, ( my fingers are damn strong, and the tips are calused). Then I just tighten the section with the straps, and tape it off. I can see what you mean about the mess though. I constantly have the rag at my side. When all I was installing was Bellawood, there is no way of working off the floor, pushing planks together. That darn stuff is just is a total fight trying to install it that way. The milling is much to be desired.

Howard

I dont get the boxes , for the end joints. Splain this to me

Howard

I think he means the pieces that he actually hooks the clamps to. They appear to span the end joints along the length of the room, presumably to keep them aligned properly.
I imagine thats a good idea.
As I indicated in an earlier post, we dont use the clamps here (at least at our company) but I know of several contractors that do.
We try to lay out an install so that complete rooms are done at one shot. If not possible, we fabricate a "false wall" to serve the same overnight function at those clamps would provide.
Most of the engineered we install is Mirage, and the milling is so precise that there gererally is no need for anything other than finger strength to pull the floor tight.

However, another product we use is Vintage "Solid Sawn", which is 7 inches wide and mostly 7 feet long; I can see that those clamps could be handy with that product on a glue down application.

I do not use clamps for hardwood either. But I only glue down engineered occasionally and it's normally no more than 48" long. I'll use a Tarkett tapping block that prevents edge damage if I need to persuade boards together, then tape them. I have strap clamps from when I did glue up laminates ( remember those? ). My problem with taping is not only the cost of the tape, but when one gets a little glue on the surface of the floor, you clean it off with the proper cleaner. That makes the board surface wet. You cannot tape to wet boards. So then you need a dry rag to dry the boards for taping. It just seems like a big hassle gluing down. I prefer nailing/stapling anyday. Rack the whole room out and start banging away without the tape, clamps, cleaning and removing of tape, which are all tedious jobs. I want to install flooring, not peel off tape and scrub floors. Just my opinion.

I guess I'm just used to gluedown. In Las Vegas everythings concrete. Every once in a while I'm nailing down , on a 2nd floor, ( my father used to tell me " ya kid, I'll give you a raise, your working on the 2nd floor today! ).
Dont you have a problem using a taping block for gluedown. Sounds like quite a mess.

I have no problem with tape adhering. The trick is not to saturate the cleaning rag, just very damp, after all it's fresh adhesive if you clean as you go. I dont use those cleaners like Bostik, they leave a film. Paint Thinner has worked great forever.

Let me ask you a question? Do you roll your gluedown installs with a 150 pound roller? I'm probably one of the very few in my area that does. You know it specifies that on most adhesives. Obviously you want to clean the floor as you go, so you have minimal clean up at the end. You also want to clean the floor before you roll it , so the roller isnt tracking adhesive. I have found that it's inevitable that if your walking around on a fresh floor, rolling it, or whatever, your moving planks, without tapping it after you tighten it.
Tapping also gives you and the homeowner the advantage of being able to walk on the floor right away, without risking movement. Nothing worse than coming to the job the next morning and seeing shifted planks in set adhesive.

It takes me no time at all to pull the tape, and the cleanup is minimal, if you clean quickly, as you go before adhesive sets.

I can see your point about not needing strap clamps on Mirage. That's an awesome precision milled product. I havent seen a product come close to that quality. Anyone out there that is installing any product , other than Mirage , and not using strap clamps and taping sections .... The installation was not as easy and tight as it should be.

Howard

I have a 75lb roller. The best cleaner I've used to date is Mapei Ultrabond Urethane Adhesive Cleaner. Leaves no dulling residue, smells good, and will remove cured adhesive. The man is right, clean as you go.

I don't see how one can glue any floor down without at least taping butt joints. Most adhesives have a memory and without a little tape the butt joints want to open up. Magic Erasers are invaluable to me too on glue downs.

Carry on Floorologist, I apologize for dragging your thread off topic. I will try and post some pictures of my dilemma.

The Tarkett tapping block is designed for gluedowns. It has a lip that fits over the leading edge of the board but not so much that it gets into the adhesive. Quite handy IMO. I do clean as I go. I still get glue on the floor. It's impossible not to. And I do roll some floors, but not all. I weigh over 200 lbs. I walk my floors in, plus working on top of them, if that isn't enough weight to set the boards into the adhesive, rolling isn't going to help. The reason you all need straps today isn't the crummy wood, it's the memory of the urethane adhesives. Drop that board and try to move it tight and the adhesive wants to pull it back to where you first set it down. That's why when doing gluedowns, I install groove out and slip the tongue into the groove instead of the nail down method where the tongue is facing out. Seems to work better and doesn't scoop glue as much. Still, while there are plenty of slab homes here in the SF Bay area, many homes are wood subfloors. I'm used to nailing and the old school method. If I have to gluedown, give me a Tarkett parquet floor with no T&G and I can flat out lay some footage with those 19 x 19 bondwood squares. Come back and sand it nice and flat and you have a real classic looking floor. Add an apron/border with a feature strip for extra pizzaz. That's a hardwood floor, IMO. SOME engineered are good looking, many are not.

Yep, just part of the job, anytime you clean up an oops, on a gluedown. I always dry buff off anyplace I wipe with mineral spirits, because it is easier to do right then, then after the haze from the glue and mineral spirit smear.

I can usually stay out of the glue with my fat fingers on a 1/2 or more, but the thinner stuff like 5/16, it seems every board I place my fingers find the glue some how.

Well, before I put my 2 cents in... Jerry what's your delemma? And tell me about Magic Erasers, I havent heard about that.


That Tarkett tapping block sounds interesting, obviously your hammer is not in the glue. I remember when Long Strip came out, and Tarkett came out with the "Pull Tool". Those things are great, I still have a couple and use them now and then. Other manuf. have tried to copy that tool, and they're mickey mouse.
But back to the tapping block. If you use strap clamps you dont have to carry a tapping black and hammer along side of you, or get off your knees to grab it. I just turn around and grab a strap clamp behind me, latch it on and presto. And you can catch just the top half of the plank thickness, so the clamps not in the glue. And my clamps wont damage the plank.

Yes, one of the reasons strap clamps are needed is due to hydraulicking ( I know that's spelled wrong ). But the old LP adhesives hydraulicked just the same as the urethanes. And I'll have to disagree with you on not needing strap clamps due to wood quality. Yes there are many other reasons for needing them, but the milling quality is no where near the same as it used to be. These days I am constantly dealing with twisted boards, over wood, very tight tongue & groove tolerances, ( yes, I do acclimate, in the boxes ), and an eray of other issues ,and exotics and wood from China, like we never saw before. Just to name a few wood related issues. I am a firm believer EVERYTHING should and needs be strap clamped and tapped, except Mirage .

As far as rolling the floor. Dude! I've heard that one before!( walking off the floor ) . I install on top of the floor also, ya I'm sure that helps in bonding. But how much time do you take "walking off the floor" ( maybe if your carrying a box of wood, your more than 200 pounds . But seriously, I'ts not consistant, even pressure, and surely not going over every inch of the floor. I do dread bringing the roller into the house. I'm vary aware of my back, especially carrying it over tile,( sometimes I bring the dolley ) . And that roller sitting on the back end of my truck is costing me fuel ! . But it's worth it's weight in gold, for the end result, and peace of mind. I'ts pretty funny also, but when customers see me using that roller, they love it.

Yes, You deffinetely have to clean adhesive as you go, for the obvious reasons, but here's another one. The adhesive manufacturers say to clean as you go, and there's a reason why. I went out on a Bamboo inspection last year. I'm glad the homeowner installed the floor and not an installer. He waited until he was done with the job, then cleaned the cured adhesive, a few days later, with the Bostik cleaner. Yes it took the adhesive off the floor, but left a clouding, or ghosting in the finish of the Bamboo, everywhere he cleaned adhesive. Yes , the cleaner will remove cured adhesive, and I wasnt too impressed with that finish, but that's the type of thing that's going on.

Howard

I used an adhesive supplied by Mohawk last year, and it said in big bold letters. "Do Not Work On Top, Or Roll Flooring"

Made me learn a new way to get to that section. I had my hovercraft that day.

What a trip! That's a new one on me. How in the heck do they expect you to install the floor, hummingbirds! And what's the deal with no rolling ? Are they specifying 1/4 x1/4 teeth on a 5/16 or 3/8 product? Are they getting a little greedy to sell more adhesive??. Then tell you to stay off the floor and dont roll it, TRYING to avoid bleeding? Boy , sure like to know their reasoning behind that one. Yea, maybe that's it. If you use too much glue, you better not work on top of the floor, and probably no reason to roll it, nice I still think Mohawk should have stuck ( pardon the pun ), to carpet !

Howard