I'm a tilesetter not a wood guy. Wound up here from JB's forum.
Acquaintance here in Jax. Fl. just had Australian Cypress installed. Prefinished. Boards are splitting down the center. He had a floor installed in 2005 with this material, and now a new room this year. Looking at samples he showed me, the 2005 material looks solid w/ some knots and a tongue that is around 1/2" wide and the top layer is a hair thicker than the 2009 material. The '09 material sample had zero knots ( in sample), a tongue about a 1/4" wide and looking at a crossection view, the beginnings of multiple cracks that go about a third of the way through the board starting at the bottom of the material (material was sold as the exact same grade as the '05 material). Now installed, he says that the boards are splitting down the middle ( the '09 material only. '05 stuff is still good). My first question was perimeter expansion (?); he says it exists and is 1/4"+. Says his installer is legit and knowledgeble. Saw on the mainsite that this wood is considered brittle; but this brittle?
Does this sound like an installation issue? Poor grade material?
Company he purchased it from claims that to send a rep out to inspect will cost $600-$800. Ummm; maybe an actual third party inspector would cost that much but a rep? The tile reps around here invite us over for hotdogs and product demos all the time for free.
Does it sound like he has a legitimate complaint to someone?
Do you need more info?

Stuff that might get erased.
Just for complete info; this is the company but I'm not sure this info is allowed, so if it isn't, sorry 'bout that.

Lumber Liquidators (yes I saw the reveiw)/Bellawood/Australian Cypress

I have installed quite a bit of the LL Australian Cypress over the years. All of it has had alot of knots. And the knots have hairline cracks running through them. I really havent run accross their Australian Cypress without alot of knots. When the sales people at the Las Vegas location sell the Cypress, they will tell people double the waste factor. Usually they tell people 10% waste . That would put Cypress at 20%. I'm not sure if this is due to the knot cracks, or other issues. It depends on the batch. LL does have all their Hardwood milled up at a number of different mills. So that explains the profile difference. As an installer your never quite sure what type of milling to expect. It definetely is a very brittle material. I am always very selective with which boards I feel comfortable with, and ones I use for cuts.

I do think you need to have a local certified inspector look at the job. I wouldnt want to jump to any conclusions without seeing it. There's a number of different reasons why it could crack like that.

Between you and me I would get my own non bias inspector.

Howard

Thanks Howard.

The splits I mention aren't in the knots. They're on the underside of the sample and I'm assuming other pieces in the floor. These split begginnings I see on the sample are about 1/3 the thickness of the board and run the length of the sample board. Parrellel (is there a spellcheck 'round here ) with the grain.
So you wood guys have to deal with differently milled boards? That sounds like it's as fun as seeing different calibrated tile.

And here I thought there always was a spellcheck but it is just my browser. I will have to look into that.

Keith

To review, are you saying the splits are on the underside of the boards? Were they there at the time of install? If not, is it speculation that they are existant within the floor due to their appearance in the sample? Sorry for the questions but am trying to determine whether or not they may present a problem in the future, if they are not evident now. If the split encroaches only one third of the way through the boards (from the bottom) and humidity controls are in place, I dont think you have a problem.
On the other hand, if I have completely misunderstood the description as given; then please, a little more info.

If you do a search on the wood, LL AC and read the reviews they are all over the place. It comes in 1/2in and 3/4 and lots of comments on splitting.

Here's my favorite review.

I didn't see the wood before the install. I've only seen the 8"-10" sample board so I'm also assuming here that the installed wood has the same issue. The owner of said wood has told me that now that it's installed about < 3 months; there are splits appearing on the face of the boards that are installed.
He also had this exact same wood installed in 2005 and that floor is fine. The sample board from that install has no cracks in it and neither does the face of the installed floor. Both purchases were sold as the same grade.

Tried contacting a certified person today. No callback.
Maybe tommorrow.

Are we talking about the 1/2" or 3/4" ?


You guys tell me if you think my theory's wrong. I'm sure you will.

If something has the starting of a crack, lets say like a piece of plastic, or maybe a windshield, or hey, a piece of wood. Dont you figure the cracks going to get worse? I mean it can look like no big deal. Or even hard to see. Figuring on all the different factors that create movement, even slight movement, I say the cracks going to grow. Especially something so dry and brittle. And in a short amount of time.

Howard

Sounds logical to me Howard.

Do any parts of Florida have really dry spells where the rh is low in the single digits like here?

It's 1/2" I beleive. 3" wide. It doesn't look as thick as the old unfinished stuff that I would think of as "Hardwood planks". It also has those grooves cut in the bottom. Not sure if that's normal.
Florida is kinda subtropical. Even North Florida. I have seen the RH get low but never single digits. This is only rarely though and we're usually on fire at that point.
Weatherwise it stayed cold here till march (very rare to stay cold that long), and has been fairly mild and wet since.

Don't wood floors dry out after install? This is prefinished. Could the boards nailed down dry and tear themselves apart?

Generally speaking, no, wood floors don't dry out after install. You said this is a solid product, so it should have been acclimated to the jobsite prior to being installed. If acclimated properly and assuming the environment in the building is controlled correctly, drying out of the wood should not be an issue.

Spoke with the floors owner today. He told me he noticed the first crack within 2-3 days. He checked some leftover material after I pointed out the splits. He tells me that he's finding boards straight out of the box that have splits about 2/3 of the way through the board.

Looking at Howard's (Flooroligist) advice. Found a Certified inspector here locally and passed the info to the owner. The owner was shocked. He never knew there were certified installers, inspectors and a national association devoted to wood floors. "Yes, we have them for tile and carpet, etc..."
Will keep you apprised of the results in case something educational comes out of this.

I spoke with a LL sub-contractor and he said he NEVER has seen them buy a floor. They blame it on installation, accliamation and site conditions. So you better have all your chips in a row.

You should not have to pony up money for a rep to look at it. I would immediately call the state attorney generals office and or licensing agency if they have one there..

I completely agree with every point you just said.

I was #1 on their "List" for 7 years , untill they decided to run the labor through HSS , ( In Las Vegas Oct 08 ). I still install a ton of their product, unfortunately, through my referral base.

I have seen them eat a job. But very rare. This one almost seems like it should be a slam dunk. But it wont be.
I can hear it right now... If the home owner noticed the problem within 2-3 days. LL will say the installer should have noticed the problem before he installed the floor. (Even if the problem was not noticable before installation ). But I must say that is pretty quick to notice a problem.

Sometimes consumers will say they noticed the problem right away. thinking that's better for their case. Be sure of the time frame. It seems strange to me that he noticed that quickly.

I know what you mean. I've tried to hint around that his installer might get blamed. I've been in floorcovering since the early '90's and it's always the installers fault. "You installed it so you accepted it." I don't believe he understands this yet. I do hope his installer is as good as the owner thinks he is. He's fired up and is involving his lawyer. I hope he's good too.
No real liscense here in Fl. It's the wild west racing to the bottom, but hey you got a great deal!