Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: Round edges
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:23 am 
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The wood floor that has been recently installed in my living room has "smooth" edges by design - meaning that the edges are cut off a bit on all sides, and in the end there's a small visible gap between the pieces (see left photo).

With some of the pieces however the wood starts dipping down almost 1/2 inch off the edge and ends in a downward curve, forming a hard edge with the neighboring piece (provided that one is cut properly - see right photo). I am unfamiliar with the wood flooring production process, but it seems to me like the wood has been crushed towards the edge, like it might happen when cut with a blade that is blunt and will only cut after a certain amount of pressure is exceeded. Anyway, is this something I should tolerate - or is it a deficiency (poor cut quality)? Thanks in advance!

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Amish made hardwood

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:58 am 
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The second pic, is definitely a cull board.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:04 am 
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Another reason why pre-finished wood is inferior to site finished.
The manufacturer would chalk that up to the installer sorting through badly milled boards. They all pretty much state there is a 5% factor of poor wood which is common and customary.

But as a whole i think your being a bit critical. Its wood, its natural, its not meant to be perfect. Live on it and with it.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback.
GoodHouse wrote:
The manufacturer would chalk that up to the installer sorting through badly milled boards. They all pretty much state there is a 5% factor of poor wood which is common and customary.

But as a whole i think your being a bit critical. Its wood, its natural, its not meant to be perfect. Live on it and with it.

Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out - if I'm being too nitpicky or not. ;) The point is though that this concerns more than 5%, and the wood was fairly expensive. I totally agree with what you say about wood being natural and not perfect - but when it comes to the human handling I'm less convinced. The milling is designed to produce stable results, and if it produces malformed pieces then I wouldn't credit that to wood being natural.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:11 pm 
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You have a few misconceptions.
Quote:
the wood was fairly expensive

"Expensive" is a relative term. Expensive for who? You, I know, but if your annual income was millions, I'm sure you wouldn't consider as expensive. The point being that the cost of an item is not ALWAYS indicative of it's quality. But for you, it was fairly expensive and therefore, it should not have any flaws? See? That's the misconception.

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The milling is designed to produce stable results

All flooring is "milled" on machines. Those machines produce errors in the milling occasionally. Humans are needed to pick out the badly/poorly milled pieces. Those humans miss some as well. Then the installer is also called on to pick out ( called "culling" ) bad boards. Your's did not. I don't know the size of the floor, nor the amount of poor ends or the brand you purchased or the installer you hired. Sometimes, folks get what they pay for. Other times, they get less. And even occasionally, they get more. Hard to say in your situation. It really is a question best posed to the installer. Like,
" Excuse me but why did you install those obviously flawed boards?"


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:22 pm 
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Gary wrote:
You have a few misconceptions.
Quote:
the wood was fairly expensive

"Expensive" is a relative term. Expensive for who? You, I know, but if your annual income was millions, I'm sure you wouldn't consider as expensive. The point being that the cost of an item is not ALWAYS indicative of it's quality. But for you, it was fairly expensive and therefore, it should not have any flaws? See? That's the misconception.

Quote:
The milling is designed to produce stable results

All flooring is "milled" on machines. Those machines produce errors in the milling occasionally. Humans are needed to pick out the badly/poorly milled pieces. Those humans miss some as well. Then the installer is also called on to pick out ( called "culling" ) bad boards. Your's did not. I don't know the size of the floor, nor the amount of poor ends or the brand you purchased or the installer you hired. Sometimes, folks get what they pay for. Other times, they get less. And even occasionally, they get more. Hard to say in your situation. It really is a question best posed to the installer. Like,
" Excuse me but why did you install those obviously flawed boards?"

Gary, when I speak of expensive I'm referring to comparable products. 10 bucks for a glass of milk is expensive - for a millionaire it might be affordable, but that doesn't make it cheaper.

As for the process itself, I'm aware that nothing is perfect. There are precendences though (obviously I'm not the first human being getting wood flooring), so what I'm currently looking for is come kind of common standard. Laws and regulations are one thing (and not an unimportant one!), the inofficial standard is another. And yes, basically I'm trying to get what I paid for - and that's always easier when you know what you can expect.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:55 am 
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I've done floors for multi-millionaires and floors for people living on social security. There certainly was a difference between what those two groups of people thought was expensive. I've done floors that cost over $50.00 a square foot and the overall job exceeded $100,000.00. And ones where the material was 6" x 6" fingerblock parquet that cost $.35 each and it was a little entry for a friend. She paid $300.00 and thought that was expensive. My $100,000.00+ floor customers thought the cost was inline with the rest of their multi-million dollar home. So the expense of a floor is relative. And you consider yours expensive. So what did you pay for it installed?

As for "quality standards", that question has been asked here before. In reality, there are none. What you'll see is that you'll have the top 10% of high cost but extremely talented and meticulous installers who will not leave a customer unhappy or unsatisfied. These are the installers who are artists and insist on perfection. However, that's not the standard or the majority. The standard and majority say some flaws are to be expected. It's only a floor, once you put the furniture in, you'll never notice it, etc. Then there's the 5&2 "rule". It says that if in 5 seconds upon looking at the floor for the first time, one cannot see two glaring defects (in a normal standing position with normal lighting), then the floor job is acceptable. But none of this is "official" because there is not an "official" standard for an acceptable installation. Let's put it this way. As an installer and businessman, my professional reputation means everything to me. I do not want an unhappy customer. If I have to go out of my way to make them pleased, then I most often will. If, IMO, they are completely unreasonable, I will try to reason with them and still do all I can to rectify the "problem", if there actually is one. So, I have my own standards, which say, do what I need to do to please my customer and help them feel like they got a good job and their money's worth. That's worth more to me than all the advertising in the world. You could get ten installers out there and you might get ten different opinions. But what to do? IF you want to pursue this, give the installer one last chance to come out and replace the boards that are flawed. If he will not, then pay for a certified hardwood flooring inspector to inspect the floor. He will give an impartial opinion. Your installer's competition will not be impartial. Then decide which legal course of action to take. Small claims, civil suit, warranty claim, etc.


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