Hello guys, I have been in this business for a few years now and it seems that when we get one problem figured out here comes two more. My biggest problem currently is this: I have a Alto floor crafter (belt sander) and I keep getting a couple of ridges in each floor we sand. We started noticing this a year ago and shortly after we bought a trio to help remove these runs or ridges that we are creating. Is anyone else having or have had this problem? Does the drum sanders do this also or is it in the belt sanders? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, hotrodhall

The most obvious answer is that your big machine, the Floor Crafter, is out of adjustment. The wheels toward the front (not the rear wheels) are adjusted to make the sander run flat and smooth. If one wheel is off, the sander will tilt a bit to one side and cause ridges or grooves to be cut into the wood. Another possibilty is that the tracking of the upper roller assembly is out of adjustment. Or you could be walking way too slow with the sander. I suggest you find a good local sander repair shop and have them take a look at it. While your there, have them give you the run down on how to maintain and adjust your machine. After over 25 yrs. of sanding floors, I can pretty much rebuild my floor sander. I do most all my maintainence and adjustments on my machine. I recommend you learn how because it will save you time and money. You may also want to attend an advanced sanding and finishing class by Bona or the NWFA. They are held all over the country, all year round. Highly recommended. You will learn more in four days than four years of trial and error.

great advise Gary (once again) I just wanted to add that the number one reason we run a laagler Hummel is simple ... FOOLPROOF. I'm not too proud to admit that if I own a machine that I need to tune occasionally, I'm gonna mess er up good!

I simply bought the best (I felt) and carry it to every jobsite like it's nitro glycerin ... carefully. Anually change my belts and wheels. Keep everything routinely clean, follow maintenance instructions in the book and simply enjoy the factory settings ... simple is good AND teachable.

Cut my teeth on the Clarks, like em just fine, especially when aggressive refinishing is needed (old wax etc...) I believe the Hummels a bit more of a finnesse machine requiring a little more patience and a tad bit slower walk on re-finishes but she just never fails. And looks better now since I've complimented the green paint job with some John Deer decals instead of that silly German jibberish on the sides and top ... realy makes a few folks wonder if it is a John Deer ... "Nuthin runs like ......"

Anyway, I've heard that floorcrafter is a great machine ... I looked into adding one last Summer to our arsenal. When I called the rep, luckilly I got one fairly honest. He asked what I was running, I told him, He then told me that if I was running a Hummel and was used to it that I would honestly prefer to stick with hummel as it was a cadillac. I thanked him for his honesty. The blue blooded American in me still wishes I owned American for the pride factor ... but simplicity and reliability feeds my 4 youguns and feeds the fellas that work with me.

All that info and a dollar should still buy a sm. cup of coffee at any seven eleven in America .... good luck

Sounds like Gary is leading you in the right direction. One thing to add to the list to check the rubber on the drum for missing chunks/ gouges they will telegraph through the paper on to the floor. Are you working left to right or right to left. I have seen people have problems with ridges because their drum was kiltered to feather left to right and they were going right to left. Food for though, I personally would have it sent in for a tune up it's time if you have been running it for a few years now with little or no maintence.

All good advice guys! Another thing I thought about was running over something hard that causes a dent in the paper or a crease. I know it's probably happened to you all before. You're drumming along and accidently run over a small rock, nail or some other little thing and bam! , the paper is damaged and that spot will leave a ridge in the floor. So make sure before your final sanding that the floors are vacummed real well. One other thing is uneven floors. The machine wants to sand the floors flat. If the flooring is very uneven with dips and such, the machine will sand ridges in the floor.

We have actually been thru the adjusting stages etc. however it doesn't leave ridges every run. It is usually about every 6-8 runs which makes me think its not an adjustment. The reply about uneven floors makes me wonder if this is part of the problem. Do any of you cross sand (45*) the floor to start? I also have been thinking about the training schools. Thanks again, Hotrodhall

I do run at about a 15 - 20 degree angle on most sanding work I do in the first cut and straighten with the same grit or with the next grit depending on species and stained or not (depends on what i feel I can get away with) It really help flatten the floor and attack the owerwood on new installs. When sanding off old finish, it seems to do a better job of breaking off the old stuff. Plus, have you ever noticed how "fluffy" saw dust is on course grits? Kind of a hassle getting that fluffy stuff out of your dust bag and can clog a vac system too ... when you cut at a slight angle the dust isnt so "fluffy" due to the cross-cutting of the grain. Make sense?

I may be imaginig things but it seems to reduce some dishout effect in oak as well.

Just a note: Hummels are run Left to Right due to the wheel positioning on the bottom of the machine. Result is that after your first trip forward and back the wheels will always be on a sanded floor. This is tremendouse in creating a FLAT floor. The dust bag rides the center as well so if you're like me and don't empty as often as you 'should' the extra weight from a filling bag doesn't lean to heavy to one side or the other. Not sure if the bag makes a whole heck-of-a-lot of differnce or not, but you know how us floor guys can be perticular about some stuff......

I agree if your getting ridges every so often it may well be the floor...check to see if it was installed in the same direction as the joists. You may have some sagging going on between joists..

Hope that helps ....

Will,

He runs a Floorcrafter by Clarke/American. While it is a belt sander, I don't know that the same left to right sanding procedure is required for that machine. It may be that the Clarke can be adjusted to run right to left. Did you know that Hummel recommended a 7 to 15 degree angle cut with their sanders AFTER I had brought to their attention that dishing and waves that are caused by trying to operate it like a drum sander (always sanding with the grain)? I'm sure I wasn't the only one but. I've used that sander since 1983 and contacted Lagler after about a year asking about how to reduce dishing and waves. They told me to use a better grade of wood. I told them they were full of poo. Then I experimented on various sanding techniques. Since I had been a woodworker all my life and had been taught that when belt sanding table tops, to cut at a 15 degree angle to produce a flatter top, I applied this technique to the Hummel and floors. Viola' Flat Floors! I'd been doing it this way for about 20 yrs. and had numerous contractors and other floor guys telling me I was "doing it wrong". I told them they didn't know squat and the "proof is in the pudding", so to speak. I contacted Lagler with my results and impressions and never heard back from them. Two years later, they published their first operators manual with my sanding recommendations. But no credit to me of course; like they figured it out on their own, I guess. Oh well! At least I know.

That's too cool Gary! As a matter of fact, that instruction from thier manual is what first spawned me to trying it. I instantly noticed the difference. For some reason my obsession with overdoing things has led me to the habit of running at 15-20 degrees. I always intend to keep the angle slight but loose track somwhere in all that walking back-and-forth

That's too cool Gary! As a matter of fact, that instruction from thier manual is what first spawned me to trying it. I instantly noticed the difference. For some reason my obsession with overdoing things has led me to the habit of running at 15-20 degrees. I always intend to keep the angle slight but loose track somewhere in all that walking back-and-forth

Since employing the angled cut I've been extremely confident in using semi and full gloss finishes if the customer desires. Practically no dishout.

Anyway, I hope Hotrod understands that a full 45 degrees is too much!! The Clark rep I spoke with did mention that the factory set is to cut right to left but that adjusting the setting to the mechanic's personal prefrences was simple to do ... although I've never done it personally ... The rep (now that I think of it) worked for HFD Goodfellow out of Seattle, WA.

I remember Highschool wood shop when Coach Willie Shreffler taught us how to use a large belt table sander, the kind where you put the wood on a sliding table, hold the belt to it with a piece of wood with a handle, and move the table back and forth under the belt to flatten. Nowdays the same machine is far more automated. I remember he mentioned to place the material on the table at a slight angle to aid in flattening. ....



All that info and a $ can get you a candy bar in any gas station in America....

I'm still wonderring if the joists in that floor happen to be parrallel to the wood floor. I love it when designiners argue what direction to run the wood between us and our customers. One told me that running left to right in the entryway "Says 'STOP' to me!!!" And I returned with, "... well running same way as the joists says 'NO WARRANTY' to me "

Take Care

My high school wood shop is where I learned to water pop and angle belt sand as well. We didn't have those nice continuois belt sanders, just the hand held type. Made alot of tables and stuff though. Loved it.

I know what you mean about running parrellell to the joist though. If that subfloor isn't real still, that flooring will sag big time between those joists causing a major PITA in sanding. And it will move around more as well. Designers; gotta love em.