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 Post subject: reverse cupping
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:46 pm 
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About four years ago I installed a hardwood floor in my family room. The type of material is 2 3/4" unfinished pickled oak that I purchased from Home Depot. Along with the flooring I also purchased a installation book to guide me through with proper installation. My family room was previouly carpeted so it was necessary to tear out the particle board and replace it with 3/4" plywood. Between the plywood and sub-floor there was tar paper which I replaced with new and when I installed the flooring I used the red rosin paper, which was recommended, between the plywood and flooring. The raw flooring was well acclamated to the home for more than five weeks prior to installation, which was stapled down closer than the recommended dimension that was suggested. I then hired a professional to do the sanding and staining, who actually complemented my work. Now here is the problem. In November of 2006 I had a fire in the basement of my home. There was alot of heavy smoke damage that required the home to be gutted out and the usual water from the fire department. There was no heat in the home, with the exception of a portable propane heater that the resto company was using only during the day, until at least the end of February. The restoration company pointed out the cupping on the floor, mainly due to the amount of moisture form the fire department and said that they could refinish the floor and get rid of the cupping. Prior to the fire we had no cupping, shrinking or any problems with the floor. The floor was refinished prior to us moving back to our home last June and looked great. Right around August, I noticed that a section of the floor looked like it was bowing in the center of each plank. Reverse of the cupping, where the edges of the board are coming up. The person that refinished the floor said he never seen anything like it before but also stated that the floor may too dry and that there may not be enough humidity in the home. I fail to beleive what this guy is telling me is true. The resto company came over with a moisture meter and said it read .10% and that the floor was too dry. I have always had a dehumidifier running and never had any problems with the floor prior to the fire. What do you think caused this? I think they should have done a moisture reading prior to refinishing the floor. I also think that there was moisture trapped between the layers of flooring which caused this to happen as the moisture began drying out. Or did the refinisher sand the floor down to far? Or what? I really need to try to pin point the problem so either my insurance company can add it to the claim or I will have to have the resto company eat the cost of replacement. Or can this be remedied by refinishing again? Any help with this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Dave

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm 
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This happens when a floor is sanded flat after being cupped from moisture. The floor was not dried out enough prior to sanding. This is common knowledge among experienced floor finishers who do restorations. It is called crowning and the problem is described here in this article by NOFMA.

http://www.nofma.org/Portals/0/Publicat ... owning.pdf

All that can be done now is total replacement. The flooring is ruined.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:06 pm 
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Thank you very much for the info! Looks like somebody owes me a hardwood floor!

Best Regards and Thanks!

Dave

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 am 
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Gary,

I am surprised at your post that the crowned floor would be ruined and a total replacement is the only remedy.

What is the reason resanding the floor would not be an acceptable option? Or am I misreading your post?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:47 am 
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IMHO, when a cupped floor is sanded too soon (still wet) and then dries out, most often, compression set is quite apparent. There will be gaps between each plank, sometimes quite large. While these could be filled, it does not restore the floor to it's pre-damaged condition. This may be an acceptable repair in certain circumstances. However, since this homeowner had a perfectly good floor prior to the fire, one should ask why he should accept less than what he had prior to the fire. He could accept this "restored" floor if he chose to, but IMO, he is not under any obligation to. Remember, now this "restored" floor would have lost two sanding/refinishings of it's lifespan as well. Another reason why the homeowner could be entitled to a replacement. Most insurance companies I have worked for understand this and do not question replacement when I have recommended it. To further complicate the issue, a mold specialist should have been hired to ensure there was not any possibility of a mold problem; always a consideration when the interior of a building has been thoroughly saturated.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:11 am 
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Thanks again for your comments and I agree I should not accept the condition of the floor. To make things a bit clearer, only the basement of the home had water in it, although my two main bedrooms in the house almost fell through the floor and were sprayed with water. It's only my own opinion that the lack of heat in the house and the push to get me and my family back in our home created the moisture problem with my floor. But there is no excuse for a restoration company that is supposed to be familar with the building trades, more so than a average homeowner, that they would not be aware of things like this.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:37 am 
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Never sand a cupped wood floor, unless it is verified the boards moisture imbalance from top to bottom is now balanced, to equilibrium. If you sand it too soon, you get a crowned floor once the moisture is lost.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:08 am 
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That makes perfect sense to me. Though, how do you find the insurance companies deal with the depreciation of wood floors?

I have had good results and cooperation dealing with the insurance companies, I am usually the first one there for the insurance companies doing the initial recovery sanding.

I work with a contractor who specializes in mold and mildew remediation and uses an injecta-dry system to dry the floors.

Using the injecta-dry we can have a flooded floor down to 10% mc in 7 days. 8) It is the only way to dry a floor.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Many homeowners have a full replacement policy, meaning that depreciation isn't factored in. I have that myself. What good is fire insurance if it does not replace what has been damaged from the fire? I dealt with just one one insurance adjuster from a liability insurance company of a small business that flooded a customer's floors. They brought up the depreciation factor but I held my ground and said fine, the homeowners will see you in small claims. I have NO pity for insurance companies. I'm hoping more fire restoration companies are using that system now. Most often, I am called in after the restoration company has already been hired and is making efforts to effect repairs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:55 pm 
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I'm not disappointed with the insurance company. They did a proper assesment in my opinion. The flooring was subjected to more atmospheric dampness than anything. Not to mention the lack of heat in the home, contractors walking in and out with snow on their boots and then the normal construction humidity that comes in the form of drywall being finished and so on. I'm more disappointed at the resto company and the guy that they hired to refinish the floor. Obviously the guy that did the work is not an expert or a professional who would know better. What the heck, he thought that the crowning was from a lack of humidity in the home! Obviously he was wrong! What's worse is that the resto company sided with him on his answer. They even came out to the house with a moisture meter and said that the flooring was too dry (.10% ). What is the ideal humidity level for a home? Floor? I understand that wood goes through climatic changes with the seasons, but what happened here seems to be far worse than seasonal changes. More like a lack of better judgement on someones part.

Thanks,
Dave

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:31 pm 
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10% would be considered pretty normal, in a normal climate controlled home in New Orleans.

They are passing the buck! Without taking the blame they deserve.


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