Hi,

I'm in the middle of rebuilding my stairs. It's a scissor stair and the bottom run is open on one side. The top run is boxed but I have not started that section yet. I ended up having to replace the carraiges to keep the rise to code and because when removing the existing OSB treads the carraiges cracked in several places. I'm putting in a housed(dadoed) stringer on the wall and a mitered skirt on the open side. The treads are 1 1/32" inch thick Brazilian Cherry and they came with the mitered end returns already installed. I put in a tongue and groove at the back of tread/bottom of riser and a dado on the front/bottom of tread to accept the riser. The skirts and risers are paint grade poplar.

I'm using Scott Schuttner's book as a reference but I have a few questions -


1. Attaching the treads and risers to the carraiges - I'm planning on using screws and plugging the holes + construction adhesive. I know some just use an 18 ga nail and rely on the adhesive but this seems risky. Also, I put a lot of effort into getting my carraiges aligned within 1/16" or so for the treads and level(the risers are not as good). However, if there is any noticeable gap between tread and carraige should I cut a shim and glue it in? Same for the risers?

2. Miter joint between riser and mitered skirt - Scott says he predrills this for finish nails to close this joint but it's often not tight enough for white glue to bond. I haven't cut the mitered skirt yet. I suppose the quality of this joint is mostly dependent on how accurately the skirt is cut. Although I cut the carraiges with a hand held circular saw, I don't really trust myself using a circ saw on the skirt and besides I would have to buy a saw that tilts in the opposite direction as my current one. I have used a jig saw with a clamped guide for cuts like this in the past and had mixed results. Sometimes the blade wandered, even to the point where it jumped off the guide wheel. However, I think this is because of bad technique, like running the blade too slow. Any advice here is appreciated since these miter joints are very noticeable.

3. I'll be using my existing railing which uses 3" square newel posts. Because of the location of the railing relative to the edge of the tread, I will have to cut a U notch on the starting tread and the landing tread (starting tread is a normal rectangular tread). Is this best done with a jigsaw?

4. Butting skirts with base or continuing skirt - In a few places I have to butt the skirts. When I have seen stairs in pics it looks like this joint may have been beveled slightly, kind of like prefinished flooring to disguise any slight mismatch. Is this how it's done?

5. As I said the treads came with the end returns installed. On one hand this is good because they are near perfect and I probably could not match the quality. However it makes any cutting opertions on the treads "stopped" which is pain and requires cleanup with a chisel. My real problem is that they did not put on the final 1" end return. I have to cut the miter on the existing return since they just left it square. I can't use a table saw or miter saw since the cut will run into the tread. Again, should I use a jigsaw here?

6. Finishing and painting - I have installed and painted quite a bit of trim and I have gotten fairly good at painting. I usually only pre-paint trim when installing base on carpet. Also, if I use plugs pre painting won't work that well and besides I'll probably suffer some damage when installing. For the best work, I assume most will paint/finish after install. I'll be installing staingrade cove after paint so I won't have cut in at the top of the riser. As far as the tread to riser/skirt joints I suppose tape will stop most of the paint from getting on the tread and I have heard that a very light smearing of caulk helps seal the tape. Should I finish the treads first (cove seperately of course)? All of the paint grade wood is primed both sides before install.


Thanks, I'm sure I will have more questions later and I'll post them in this thread.

Hi alexh,
Me again. I'll answer to the best of my ability. Keep in mind there's lots of different ways to do things. You'll need to decide which is best for your situation.
1) With the risers, your best bet is to glue and nail with 15 gauge finish nails. It's important to have the carriages for the risers straight If not, you'll develope a bow in the risers and your tread will show gaps a the back requiring you to scribe the tread to the riser. When nailing up the risers to the skirts, I use yellow glue and brad nails to join my outside miter first and allow that to dry. It's your only oppurtunity to get that miter to fit nicely. Then nail your riser to the carriage. To attach the tread to your carriage, use a good construction adhesive and #8 or 10 finish nails. This is adequate in most cases. If you want to screw, use trim head screws and putty the holes; plugs look crappy. I screwed most of my braz cherry treads down recently with trim heads and puttied with Woodwise braz cherry filler. Worked great and couldn't see the putty; even up close.
2) I cut the miters for my risers and the skirt with my Hitachi sliding compound miter saw. This saw tilts both ways and will cut your treads, risers, and skirts. You'll need to finish the end of the cut with your jig saw. I wouldn't trust any other saw to make this outside miter cut. You can use any brand you prefer; Makita, Bosch, Dewalt, Hitachi all make good sliders that will tilt both ways. If you can't buy it, rent one and plan a day of cutting only.
3) If you need to cut a tread to fit around a newel post, measure carefully, use a new medium tooth blade and a good jig saw. You could do most of the cut with your slider and just chisel out the center; a common way to cut a dado.
4) Your choice. A miter will give you greater glue surface but is more difficult to pull off. If there is good blocking/backing behind your joint, a butt joint well nailed will work fine. You'll need to caulk and fill your paint grade stock anyway.
5) This is what I did. There are other ways to make this jack miter cut. Take your return and place it on the end of your tread and draw a line where it is to go. If your returns are 1", then measure back 1" from the front of your tread. Using a speed square, draw your miter from the outside corner of your tread to the line that represents where the return will attach to the tread. Using your slider, cut across your tread and stop right where the 45 intersects the straight cut. Here's where it gets tricky. I used a large spead square as a guide for my jig saw. It has a 90 and 45 angle on it but you could make a simple jig to keep your jig saw from wandering. Use a new wide, stiff blade on a GOOD jig saw. Black and Decker special won't work here. Line up your blade on the 45 mark and using your guide, cut your jack miter to the place where it intersects with your straight cut. Finish off your straight cut with your jig saw. Now test your fit with your returns. Odds are you'll need to do some clean up of the jack miter. I used a rasp. Be careful not to bugger up the bottom of your cuts because you can see them somewhat. After getting a good fit, I used 2 #20 bisquits and yellow glue with bar clamps to attach the returns to the treads. After about one hr. of dry time, I filled any voids and sanded the seams and joints flush and smooth. It was TIME CONSUMNING. There are other ways; like using a band saw or a "sled" on a table saw but I choose this way as I had a makeshift shop set up on a jobsite.

Good Luck and take your time!

Thanks Gary,

I have a 12" slider - I think it's a working brain that missing sometimes .

I think I added this additional question just after you answered - it's espicially important now that the plugs are out.

Again, thanks

6. Finishing and painting - I have installed and painted quite a bit of trim and I have gotten fairly good at painting. I usually only pre-paint trim when installing base on carpet. Also, if I use plugs pre painting won't work that well and besides I'll probably suffer some damage when installing. For the best work, I assume most will paint/finish after install. I'll be installing staingrade cove after paint so I won't have cut in at the top of the riser. As far as the tread to riser/skirt joints I suppose tape will stop most of the paint from getting on the tread and I have heard that a very light smearing of caulk helps seal the tape. Should I finish the treads first (cove seperately of course)? All of the paint grade wood is primed both sides before install.

alexh,

The way the finishing makes the most sense to me(and the way I do it) is:
1) Install all your paint grade material first. Leave treads off. Prime and paint your risers and skirts, filling and caulking after priming. Of course do any sanding prior to priming.
2) Prefinish your treads and cove molding prior to installing but after you have cut them to fit. Speaking of cove mold, with a 1" return, I think I'd prefer to use a scotia mold instead. Looks similar but instead of a 3/4" x 3/4" molding, it's a 1/2" x 3/4". Looks better!
3) Now install your treads and putty the holes. Sand the putty flush and put a small amount of the sealer you used on the putty only. Next, lightly sand your treads and apply a final coat of finish. After that is cured/dry, you can install your scotia or cove. Or you can install the cove before your final coat, either way. Touch up paint as needed! Your done!

Now for the railing and balusters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!