Gary,

Thank you very, very much for your replies. These have been very helpful. Just to ask about/respond to a couple things:

"IMO, what probably looks "weird" to the OP is now the floor does not have the finish build they have become accustomed to. It does look thirsty to me as well. Dennis, I know you understand the phenomena re: waterbased finishes. If there is not enough build and the wood looks thirsty, there can be a "glistening" type of look, especially in the spring grain. I'm sure you've seen what I'm referring to. For me personally, I like the look of a fat finish ( multiple coats ) Being from area area where Baca-Glitza was king for many years, I prefer that heavy, fat looking, plastic looking satin finish. In my home, I had six coats. Three of OMU and three of catalyzed waterbase. It's not about durability but the appearance. But think about it, since the finish becomes the wear surface on a wood floor, the thicker the wear surface, the more mil thickness you have before wearing down to the wood. You can still get surface scratches and dents, but the overall appearance and durability is improved, IMO. It's not for everyone and not the industry standard, AND, building up multiple coats must be done correctly or one ends up with a soft finish. But in the end, for me, I like it and prefer it. I do not like thirsty looking site finished floors, and see them way too often from the low bidders."

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You described perfectly the weird finish - "a glistening type of look, especially in the spring grain" and "thirsty looking site finished floors". We could not capture this on film, but that is it exactly. Since you mentioned "Baca-Glitza" - when our floors were refinished with the water-based finish 12 years ago, it was something besides Street Shoe, so maybe it was that product. We liked it, whatever it was. Then we also liked the semi-gloss Street Shoe they recoated with. We probably had the type of floor you are describing above. (BTW, we don't go with the lowest bidder - we've learned from experience that it is worth paying for a quality job). Then, after the lastest refinish (using Bona Traffic semi-gloss), we were stunned when we saw the result - it was such a different look. We thought at first, it must have been the wrong product. Then, we thought that maybe Bona Traffic and Street Shoe just have a totally different look.

1) What is OMU? ("Three of OMU and three of catalyzed waterbase") Do you have a prefinished floor that you have screened and recoated - just wondering in case we put new floors down. It is our understanding that now with prefinished the aluminum oxide layer is sandwiched under urethane coats so it is okay to screen/recoat w/o having to sand to bare wood first - is that correct?

2) Regarding "thirsty" looking floors above, and earlier responses about how the floors were finished - to fix this look, we could have the floors screened w/220 grit and recoated? Could we recoat with Street Shoe? (on top of last refinish done with Bona Traffic)

3). Is there a difference in how Bona Traffic water-based semi-gloss looks compared to Street Shoe semi-gloss?

4) If we replace the floors, we could go prefinished and it would be okay to put down on our same subfloor (just want to confirm that someone has seen this done and it is not theory only).

5) In your experience, is screening an option to get too many finish coats off, or is sanding the only option? HSW Floors mentioned this, and several others we've talked to locally now have said the same - just wanted your opinion as well. (And would that have prevented our issues with imperfections now showing up and cracks, etc)

6) Regarding the black streaks. I will be posting another, hopefully better, photo soon. You mentioned "In your case, it maybe a reaction to the sealer". Is there any way to prevent the acid in the wood from reacting to the sealer, or is this just something that occassionally happens in refinishing jobs?

7). We agree with your last posting - we think a new floor would get us closest to what we had before. Your suggestions are perfect and have been printed to save for when we can afford to do that.

Again, thank you so much for your time. Your comments have been very helpful.

Answers:

1) OMU=Oil modified urethane. My floors were/are site finished. NOT recoated factory finished floors. I would NOT recommend doing it this way ( 3 coats OMU and 3 coats Waterbased ). I did this over a period of time ( months ) to allow the finish coats to fully cure between coats. Impractical typically.

2) Yes, screen/pad and recoat with similar finish. And actually, Traffic is an awesome looking finish, WHEN DONE PROPERLY. My customers prefer it over Street Shoe. Also, you said:



Baca-Glitza is not a water-based finish. It is the original acid-curing Swedish finish developed in Sweden in the early 50's for coating linoleum flooring. It caught on here, especially in the Pacific Northwest ( where the US division is located ) for wood flooring. It had been the industry's highest quality floor finish for many years. However, due to extremely hazarous chemicals used and extreme flammability, it has fallen out of favor among most flooring contractors. Some will still use it. It is one of the most difficult finishes to apply properly and the finisher needs to wear a full face respirator and even have an oxygen supply, at least. Traffic can compare very closely with way less hazardous conditions.

3) Not much, but independent tests show Traffic to be more scratch and scuff resistant, whereas Street Shoe is more stain resistant. Traffic maybe slightly less shiny at first. All manufacturers sheen levels are a little different. And every finish will start to de-gloss ( lose a little of it's shine ) after a short period of time

4) If the subfloors were fine before, they should be fine now. It is possible some minor repairs may need to be done, but subfloor replacement would be highly unlikely, UNLESS THE WOOD FLOORS WERE GLUED DOWN TO THE SUBFLOOR. This is assuming you would install new, 3/4" solid nailed down floors. Engineered or thinner solid floors could require additional underlayments

5) It has been done. One could start with coarser abrasives and move up finer. In this case, I might have started with sandpaper on a rotary buffer. But these machines would not reach everywhere, like corners, edges, toekicks, etc. Some some areas would need to be done by hand.

6) Yes, use a different sealer that has tannin blockers in it. Every manufacturer has one or two now. I am not sure that is the case with your floors. It most likely is naturally occurring mineral streaks.

7) I agree and thank you. Your existing floor will probably never satisfy you and will always have some issues you do not like. It can be made to look a little better by adding a coat or two of semi-gloss Traffic, but that will not cure the many other issues you have with your floors.

Let's clarify. There are a couple of ways of doing this where everyone is protected. This is how I handle it.

Once a customer decides to enter into a contract with me, I get a 10% deposit of the total contract price. This is to "book" the date/s and is not refundable except for certain situations. If I supply the wood flooring ( and I usually do ), I get full payment for the entire retail cost of the material upon delivery to the customer's house/job. So now, the customer has paid a 10% deposit and the full cost of the material prior to me having performed any labor ( except for having the wood delivered ). After the installation is complete and prior to the sanding and finishing ( if there is to be sanding and finishing ), I get a progress payment for the installation labor I have provided. At this point, I would have collected approx. 60 to 70 % of the contract price. Then once the entire contract has been performed, then I invoice for the final payment and balance of the contract. Doing it this way meets all the CA. Contractors License Board rules re: collecting payments. The customer has never paid in advance for any labor or materials until it was delivered. And I am not stuck holding the bag for materials or installation labor, if the client is being unreasonable.

Now, if the business is a retail establishment, I understand some will want either a partial or full payment for the materials prior to ordering them. Since I do not do that, I don't know if that would be a violation of our states rules. But it could be argued that many products must be paid for in advance if it needs to be ordered. So it's possible the customer may have to pay for the flooring cost in advance and prior to delivery. I just do not do it that way since I have credit accts. at my distributors and I have 30 days, sometimes more, after the distributor delivers the material, and before I have to pay my material invoices before being charged a credit/interest fee.

For the purposes of the Pro's in this discussion, if this part of the conversation is to be continued, it's probably best not to sidetrack the thread and start a "Best Business Practices" discussion under the Pro's category. I'd be interested in this exchange if it continues.

I've read much, not all the posts.
I think only one statement has not been made here:

This floor is wood. Wood is imperfect.
If you want a perfect looking wood floor then purchase vinyl or laminate in a wood pattern.

A few boards with a different appearance does not equate to a bad floor or a bad job because it's wood.

We can all read things too quickly and not understand the real problem(s). In this case especially, it takes a lot of time to really read and understand the issues. Gary did an excellent job of this, and his answers to our questions were very helpful. We are thankful for his help with trying to figure out what happened and why things look how they do.

To summarize some of the issues here, the floor came out significantly different than before refinishing. There are not just a few boards with cracks, and a few boards with different colors. They are a majority of the floor. It is difficult with our little basic camera to actually get the best photos, and we supplied just a few to try to get the general idea across, but you definately notice the issues when walking on the floor. Besides the cracks and coloration differences, the finish is significantly different. This was a select grade floor that was very well cared for, and now it looks like a different grade and age of product.

Our understanding is that this particular forum (Yikes! I have problems) is about getting an understanding of why a problem happened, and what some potential fixes might be.
What we learned here, is that when this situation occurs (a floor with too much finish), a different method might have been used (screening the excess finish rather than sanding), and the finisher could also have used some different techniques to create a better looking finished product. Additionally, if sanding were required, the refinisher, as the wood expert, should explain that on a prefinished micro-bevel floor, the end result may uncover less than select wood (since there were multiple refinishes), as well as remove the bevels and expose cracks not visible before.

Finally, there were many helpful comments for going about selecting the right professional to do the job so that we don't run into this type of thing in the future.

Yes, wood is imperfect. But, from the consumer point of view, we would like any contractor to let us know of potential problems that might occur due to work being done, and we would like think that any "after" would be better than the "before".

Lots for both us consumers, and I think the professionals, too, to learn here.

The floor came out significantly different than before it was re-finished.
Of course it did. The old floor darkened and yellowed.

Gary is a great re-finisher, but Ive read enough of his posts to also feel comfortable he is great at explaining to his clients what to expect and discuss options.

A real pro leaves his customer with reasonable expectations of the finished product.

Most problems begin at "point of sale". Overselling and overstating the outcome causes more trouble than anything else in this business.