Thank you in advance for your responses to this post. I am in the process of planning a hardwood project on a house I just bought. I'll be installing hardwood over aroun 1500-1600 ft2 and I want to put the least amount of $$ into it as I can. At the same time, I want something that can be resanded in the future.

I am putting together a list of estimates from installers as well as my own projections on how much a DIM (do-it-myself) floating floor installation would cost. I'd like to compare them and go with the cheapest option. The flooring that I'm considering is BR111 Casanova and WFI World Woods. I really like dark woods like Santos Mahogany, Paddouk, and Brazilian Cherry. Unfortunately, adding in the shoe molding is killing my DIM costs.

One installer I spoke to said I should shy away from floating floors because they are considered to be temporary... He also said that they are not as resistant to moisture.. This is not inline with what I have read. He added that even the floating floors with the thicker wear layers do not add as much value as nailed down solid and that imported woods hurt home resale...

Can anyone comment on this? It would be nice to hear from someone that is not biased.

I guess I'm biased, since you have my price, and the value I bring to the installation. I ain't cheap.

Floaters are good if it is known that you have slightly high concrete vapor problems.

I would not go as far as to say it is temporary, maybe if it isn't installed right.

What makes a floater any less "resistant" to moisture?? You certainly can't float a solid wood, only engineered that is milled to be floated. Engineered is known to be better for moisture. So, that blows that installers theory out of the water.

Real wood is wood, whether it is nailed floated or glued. The installation method is not going to determine value gained or lost!!!! This guy is trying to sell you what he wants to install, not what your budget can afford. (he sounds like the cheap guy your looking for, since you would rather have it done cheaply, using the cheapest materials)


On another note... If you want to go cheap on the wood, save yourself a lot of headaches by not going to the cheapest guy on the installation.

Have you read the definition of "cheap" in the dictionary?

cheap: Not respected, Of a low price. of less quality.

cheapen: to depreciate, to beat down in price and value.

cheaply: At a small price. low quality

cheapness: State or quality of being cheap.


In other words, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Expectations are seldom met, by being cheap.

I wholeheartedly agree with Perry's statements, you definetely get what you pay for. If you want CHEAP, then install the CHEAPEST wood floor available (and it is solid wood). What is this, you may ask. Well, it's been around for over 30+ yrs. It's 12" x 12" x 5/16" fingerblock parquet. I see it prefinished in solid oak for less than $2.00 a ft. and if you go with a cabin grade, you probably can get it for $1.25. It's fallen out of favor but was used alot in the 70's and 80's. You can glue direct to concrete with cheap glue and it'll be ok. I've seen it done hundreds of times; refinished lots of them too. BUT, your floor will look like a floor from the 70's. It will be cheap though, especially if you do it yourself.

AMEN! Although I'm a solid and sanded guy, I understand a GOOD engeneered floating floors benefits. And YES that guy is definitely 'telling' you what he is interrested in doing ... only 'cause he probably ignorant of the product. Old rule of thumb in service trades if you are a consumer ...

Ask for ... get ... and check out for yourself REFERRALS ...

Then you can't go wrong (most of the time) You never know ...some unknown inexpensive guy working on the side may have done a fabulous job for somebody and you have yet to discover him .... The yellow pages is not all your area has to offer I'm sure. (I use to be that guy in this town ... now I have employees and have gone up just a tiny bit in price )
If it sounds to good to be true when you find him, simply have him set it up where you can go LOOK at some of his work and hear for yourself from his customer how they felt he performed.
Then there is the opposite .... "If I make my prices high, people will ASS-U-ME that I must be good even if I'm a hack" Look out for that guy. GO SEE SOME OF HIS WORK.
Good Luck!

1600 ft2 is alot of ugly to look at if it sucks ...

Thanks for the help guys. FloorGuy, I haven't forgotten you. You're option #3 in my spreadsheet. I'm going to get a couple more estimates next week before I decide what to do.

I'm a computer tester. Trust me when I say that I know the meaning of "you get what you pay for". But I also want to make sure I'm getting a good value. I guess that should have been the word I used: value. The guy that I talked to actually worked at Ace here in Austin.

I did some measurements last night and it looks like I have 1350 ft2 to finish in wood, around 40 ft of transitions to tile, and 400 ft of shoe molding needed. A put together a spreadsheet that accounted for about a 10% overusage/loss/damage/etc of materials and I came out with about $10,800 for a DIY gluedown installation and $10,100 for a DIY floating installation. This assumes that I prep the floor myself.

An voice estimate from Ace was about $10 for a gluedown engineered Mahoganny with a 1/8 wear layer and solid sawn cut. I'm not sure if it was a prefinished product or not. That puts my price at 13,500 and I think that price includes shoe molding, but I'm not sure. (I should know more on Monday.) He said that they might go cheaper if they hire sub-contractors, but I'm quite leary of that. As you said, I don't want to save a thousand only have it look like crap. I will definitely check the work of the installer.

My hope in going with a larger company (like Ace) is that they might be able to get the materials cheaper than I can even after a mark-up. My reason behind that he mark-downs they must get for the large quantities they order.. Perhaps not...

Thanks again,
Brian

I can provide 1350 sq.ft. of BR-111, with a floating installation, if you do the floor prep, transitions and trim molding, for $9,787.50

That's $7.25 a foot. That's with me buying it on-line, too. If I supply it is marked up. So if you buy the flooring from Ken yourself, it is even better on your budget.



Beacause I do failure inspections, it would be unethical for me to comment about ACE.

I think you should hire Perry, the Floorguy. That price sounds like a terrific VALUE! BTW, large flooring installation companies use their best installers on repeat customers and clients, like general contractors. One time low ball buyers get the new guys who are just learning 'cause they're paid less and that's the way the business can afford to give you a good labor price. I know because I used to be a foreman and ran crews of up to 10 guys on large commercial jobs. I hate to think about some of the crap I used to have to push onto customers. That is why I work for myself now. Bigger is NOT better!

Gary, Floorguy,
You have been most helpful. Thanks for your candor and help with all this. It would be nice if we had more sites like this one for other products.

Floorguy,
That's a great price. I'm going to send you an email to get a bit more specifics. Sorry to keep bugging you like this.

Brian

Guys:

Don't you think money can be discussed via private email? You must be talking about the cheaper BR111 engineered for that price?

It is the low dollar stuff you have listed, from BR-111

It is what is in his budget.

Thats a crap piece of wood. I cannot see why anyone with a lick of common sense would buy it. For that matter why would any decent retailer offer it to his clients unless he had no morals. But I'll bet Perry could make it look the best.

If you cannot afford a decent piece of wood then go carpet or ceramic.

Cheap is cheap no matter how you try to say it..

You'd be suprised at the number of buyers we get. Sure most(if they call us) know it can't be refinished but if taken care properly can last 10-15 years, perhaps more. I've seen original hardwood floors 20 years old that look great. It's all about care and maintenance. Compare this to a carpet in that price range or $27/yard--both will have similar lifespans--but I'm sure the carpet will wear out quicker? I suppose that $27/yard carpet is crap too?

No, I'm not saying I would buy it. I prefer something that can be refinished because I may want to stay in that same home 20 years or more. Nowadays it is about money--always has been. How many of us live in the same home for more than 10 years? Not many these days. So the question may be why do people have to spend twice the amount when they'll never see the benefits it has to offer?

A little off subject but I visited a family friend last summer who had 3/4" cherry hardwood floors that were installed in '84. They asked if they needed to be refinshed. The answer was no because they were in pristine condition--taken care of superbly.

I would recommend those that do buy thin wear layer engineered products to buy extra in case boards need to be replaced. And it's also a good idea to keep a few of them exposed so the color change takes place. Yea, I know I'll hear it "what do you expect someone do do? Scatter 30 square feet in a room somewhere? Nah, place 3 or 4 of them under a bed somewhere." This way you'll have some in case a few boards get damaged.

His budget isn't there for much else, and still be able to afford a quality installation.

What I recommend is almost $13 a foot for the floor alone.

I don't think that is in his budget. What else can I do.
I can't afford to do it at a discount rate on the labor.

That price was for just supplying and installing the flooring, nothing else. No floor prep, trim or transition installation, ect.

Adding floor prep alone, could put him over his budget.