my contractor installed brazilian cherry last summer, with 3 layers of oil-based poly on top. after a few weeks i noticed the poly at the joint of the boards started to pop and peel. also the finish doesn't seem very durable - if i drop a key or a kid's toy, doesn't take very heavy object, it would leave a white mark because the poly at the point of contact will pop a bit from the wood...

over time the peel / pop around the joints gotten worse, but now i think it has stabilized. it's not major disaster, the floor looks alright except there are these white lines on the joints. i just want to get some opinions on if it is supposed to be like this? i get a feeling that there is something wrong with the finishing process. and i expected the finish will be tougher? i'm very afraid of dropping stuff because it's very easy to leave those white marks from the drop. also couple of weeks ago a sticker from my dinning chairs fell off and stick to the floor, it was probably there for couple of days, i tried to pull it away and a patch of poly came out with it...

i'm going to try to get the contractor to come back to take a look. but even if he agrees there is a problem and is willing to fix it for me for free, i don't know if i should do it since it would be quite a hassle as now we have all these furniture in the house (assuming he has to sand it and do it all over again)? but on the other hand, i worry that if i don't fix it now, it might peel / pop more in the future and would deteriorate... but if he can't do it right the first time, can he do it right the second time? (actually he had to redo the foyer even in the 1st time - there was bubbles of poly poping all over the foyer, all the boards, not the joints. he told me he had never see it before and didn't know why. he just redo it, the 2nd time seems to be fine. of course there are now also some peel / pop at the joints).

i've some pictures of the floor, feel free to take a look:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1168408163 ... directlink

any advice / suggestion appreciate. thanks in advance!

your floor has white line syndrome. ITs something that ive seen myself before. its more commonly seen in dark floors like the bcherry one you have but i dont think thats the reason why its peeling (being cherry) but you certainly can see it more on dark floors. when the floor moved from seasonal movement the poly is suppose to break cleanly along the edge and allow the board to move. For some reason yours didnt break clean obviously. its a resand, ive seen contractor and finish companies go head to head over this, its tough to assign the blame so usually someone ends up getting the short end.

thanks for your reply kevin.

what about the problem that if i drop something the poly would pop away from the wood? the poly doesn't seems to stick too well. is that normal too but just more visible on darker wood? (although i've see friends' floor stained dark (not bcherry), they don't seem to have this problem)...

its not white line syndrome...the finish is peeling...
one of the coating was not dry enough when the next was attempted.

I am sure you can take your thumbnail and make a mark in the floor..if you can..the floor needs to be redone.
it will be just like using an etcher sketch... make pretty patterns and faces..=)
job needs to be redone..deal with it now..or lose your warranty and then u SOL.
the job will need to be completely restripped..NOT recoated.

thanks for your replay James.

i've never tried it with thumbnail, but i'm sure i can make a mark with it if i try hard enough... (example: i moved a floor lamp, which is not too heavy, when i tilt the lamp, the edge of the circle base pressed against the floor that left a mark).

if the same guy offer to do it, how can i be sure it will be done right the 2nd time?

also i need suggestion that if i'm redoing it - how should i deal with my furniture? can i ask them to do the rooms separately, so i can store the furniture in a room while they do one room? also i read about "no dust" equipment but i doubt if this floor guy has them. plus on my 2nd level the floor flow through different rooms, there is no line or step at the doors i don't know if they can do the rooms separately. or there are services i (or they should pay for me to hire) to move and store the furniture for me?

where the pealing is happening is there finish still on the wood or is it going all the way down to the bare wood? Braz cherry has a ton of silica and oil in the wood. When you sand you temporarily remove all the oils that have bleed up to the surface. if you wait too long to coat and use a slow drying oil based poly you can get a similar result. Exotics need to be sealed with something that dries fast to prevent it from being a problem with adhesion. there is a adhision test thats pretty standard in the coatings industry called across hatch test. www.defelsko.com/technotes/adhesion_methods.htm

if it passes the adhesion test its wls if not then you just have a bonding issue somewhere, most likely due to the sealcoat.

kevin,

I think that is too much info for the OP...bottomline is the finish is peeling..dont matter
if just topcoating or sealer...etc.

the cause really doesnt need to be determined..the result it there and it needs to be redone.

as fto the OP..yes, furniture needs to be removed.No guarantee it doesnt happen again, but it
the chance you ave to take..I dont know who the contractor is.
You can call a furniture mover to remove items..as for all the details..you have to work them out..

if it were me, I would expect the furniture removed so I can do the whole job at once..I may offer to break it into 2 phases.
I would not pay any other expenses other than my own.
anything else would just be litigation..
Not worth anyones time..If he honors his work.it may just be an honest error.
He is dealing with it..you will need to do your part as well...or take it to court.

thanks for the detailed input kevin & james!

for kevin info - it looks to me the peeling is not down to the bare wood, so i guess it's the 2nd or 3rd layer is peeling off (remember i said there was similar problem with the foyer, only at a bigger scale... (ie. poly was popping in patches by itself), i remember it was the same, the first layer was still attached to the wood but was the later layer(s) that was popping.)

james, i'm a fair guy so i wouldn't mind paying maybe 1k to move and store the furniture so the floor guy can do the work. i just want to get good floor that last while i live in the house. i invested in getting good wood so it seems silly to have a bothy finishing job. my biggest worry is more the floor guy isn't good enough, and the same problem still happen after he redo it... but as you said, i guess i don't have much option other than taking the chance? would be stupid if i pay to get someone to redo it? (well i guess one other option is not redo it... but again it just hurts me to see these beautiful wood covered by a bad finish job)...

and kevin - thanks for the link of the tests, interesting read. in another accidence, i pulled off some poly with some 3M painting tapes. the tapes was left there for maybe a week, and those are low in adhesive and supposedly safe for floor. i guess it failed in this rudimentary adhesion test...

the only fix is a resand but I think its a good idea to try a different approach or at least consider the reasons for failure. If there is finish still under the pealings then id say there was not enough tooth from screening left for the additional coats to stick. a oil based poly has to be mechanically abraded to ensure good adhesion. some folks in an attempt to diminish swirls in the finish coats will use an old screen between coats this isnt completely wrong but you have to be carefull because your 180 screen is prob closer to a 300 now burnishing the shit out of the finish and not really leaving anything for the next coat to grab.

i just got a reply from the floor guy he's going to come take a look. now he's suggesting resanding and use water-based poly this time round.

i recall seeing some article on web saying water-based poly will attach better to exotic wood. so you guys think this is worth a try? or if whatever he did between layers of finishes caused the "lack of teeth", assuming his skill has not improved, will still cause problem even with water-based poly?

Good quality water based products are fine but I have not seen any evidence that they stick better than oil based urethanes.I've done about 10 or so Brazilian cherry floors (site finished) and never had a problem with any of them. I even had one cup severely and the poly still didn't' fail. The cupping had nothing to do with me .

When coating brazilian cherry with oil, the first coat should go on right after buffing. This was mentioned already.On the next day, the floor should be buffed with a 220 grit screen or equivalent abrasive. IF the 1st coat is dry enough, the buffer will pass along the floor smoothly and the screen or abrasive will cause the finish to white powder.

If the buffer media (screen or other abrasive) clogs at all, the finish is not dry and should be left alone for at least another day. But if it powders well, then you can go ahead and put on the 2nd coat.then repeat the process for the 3rd coat.

i've seen them buffing before putting on the 2nd layer... it first layer seems dry enough and it white powdered. i guess it's a bit of a mystery why it didn't bond well at the end, and why the floor guy was also puzzled.

its certainly nice to see you work with the contractor without to much grief. More often than not the customer in your situation is screaming and panicking about the situation. Floor finishing isnt as easy one might think, people have failures, it happens life goes on. Good luck with the resand.

just got off phone with the floor guy. the plan is to first test resend & use water based poly at my foyer (which is a small area) as a test see how it goes (i just don't want to redo the whole floor, only to find out it still peel...)

and then he suggested i don't even have to hire mover & storage for my furniture but just move them all in my basement / garage... and he could help me move those furniture... i'm not too sure about the idea, cause those bed & sofa etc are kinda heavy...

now the thing that annoys me is that he said that he'd have to check with his boss on how much to charge me, usually they do it at a discount. obviously i had assumed they would fix it for me at their cost... the peeling wasn't my fault, i have to move my furniture, find a temp place to stay in etc etc, all at my own cost, plus pay for the resand? the floor guy was hired by the contractor, there was no explicit warranty as i recall. so what's the usual protocol for these kind of dispute?