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 Post subject: Pine flooring over concrete slab
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:59 am 
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Hi, I want to install pine flooring in my living room. I intend to use 1/2" pine tongue and groove, as it gives a more casual, worn look. I put some in my mother's house, but her house is peir and beam, so we just nailed it to the floor (left the old vinyl floor down as a vapor barrier). It has done really well. Again, I'm not looking for the gym floor look, I want a well worn look and these board come well worn! (or not very well milled, however you look at it)

I have some questions.


1) I'm installing it in my home over a concrete slab. For 1/2" pine, what type of subfloor should I use? These will be 6" wide boards approx 11-12' long, not random width. I've seen folks suggest that you should use 2 layers of 3/4" plywood, nailed or glued to the concrete for the subfloor. Do I really need TWO layers of plywood? My living room is sunk 4" approximately, but I really didn't want to raise it that much. (I figure 3/4" plywood + 1/2" flooring = 1 1/4" increase. A 2" increase puts me dangerously close to having the floor end up higher than the fireplace brick. I plan on blind nailing the pine into the plywood.

2) The wood is not really intended as flooring. I believe it is siding milled T&G. Is there a problem with this being 1/2" instead of the typical hardwood flooring 3/4"?

3) Recommended vapor barrier? I was thinking about just finding some kind of paint-on sealer to use. Would the plastic work better?

If any red flags go off with regards to my plan, I would appreciate it as well. I'm looking for a floor that will stay put as best as 1/2" pine can.

Thanks again, and to the gentlemen who's post I found concerning hand scraping - God bless you. I've been looking for tips on hand scraping floors for 2 months.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:21 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:42 pm
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Location: Antioch, CA. 94509
Hi Justin,

With 1/2", all you should need for nailing is 3/4" CDX plywood. You can float it or glue and nail. I prefer the glue and nail method. It would be advisable to moisture test the slab first. And even if it reads ok now, using Bostick's MVP and gluing the CDX down with Bostick's Best is what I would recommend. 6 to 8 mil poly is fine if you are going to float the underlayment. One thing, you may want to glue that pine down as well. Reason is that the T&G was milled for siding, not flooring and I'd bet the fit is a lttle sloppy; not snug as you'd get with flooring. Also, 1/2" is a little thin to rely on nailing only for 6" wide planks. Just my opinion. That's how I'd do it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:29 am 
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Gary wrote:
Hi Justin,

With 1/2", all you should need for nailing is 3/4" CDX plywood. You can float it or glue and nail. I prefer the glue and nail method. It would be advisable to moisture test the slab first. And even if it reads ok now, using Bostick's MVP and gluing the CDX down with Bostick's Best is what I would recommend. 6 to 8 mil poly is fine if you are going to float the underlayment. One thing, you may want to glue that pine down as well. Reason is that the T&G was milled for siding, not flooring and I'd bet the fit is a lttle sloppy; not snug as you'd get with flooring. Also, 1/2" is a little thin to rely on nailing only for 6" wide planks. Just my opinion. That's how I'd do it.


Wow, thanks a ton! I hate to sound like an idiot, but could you describe the "glue and nail" method?

1. Glue vapor barrier to concrete?
2. Glue plywood to barrier?
3. Glue and nail pine to plywood?

And the fit isn't the best, but looks good for the look we're going for. Mom's ended up fitting pretty close, but the lumber yard she got the wood from sent her some crap boards, so we had to nail down a board and use a wedge to get the boards in line - it was a pain but worked well for crooked boards. If they were too crooked, the lumber company was happy to exchange them. I'm doing around 440 square feet at first. The living room is sunk, but should be above grade, but given that, is there somewhere I can rent a moisture meter/tester? I bet they're pretty expensive to purchase.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:18 am 
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Location: Antioch, CA. 94509
The vapor barrier is Bostik's MVP. That goes on the concrete first and you let it set up for 24 hours or so. It's a somewhat thick goo. :lol: Then you cut the plywood and glue that down with Bostick's Best Urethane flooring Adhesive. Cut the plywood into 2x8 strips and nail to keep it sucked down until glue dries. Use 1&1/2" fluted masonry nails and a 2lb. sledge hammer. Just need to nail to keep it flat and in the glue. Once the glue dries, it will do 90% of the holding. Then lay your flooring over that using Bostick's Best adhesive and blind nail into the tongue every 8" and within 2" of each end. Use ONLY 1&1/2" cleats or staples; or even 1&1/4" if you can get them. The reason for gluing the flooring to the plywood is:
1) It is over 4" wide, the wider, the more it wants to move. Usually blind nailing works only on up to 5". After that, something more usually needs to be done as well.
2) It's only 1/2" thick. It needs more holding power than a few staples every 6" across.
3) It's really siding, which means the T&G will be milled sloppy and not secure the flooring well enough for nailing only.

Anyway, that's the way I'd do it. MOISTURE TEST THAT SLAB!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:32 pm 
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Is the gap in between the plywood subfloor pieces a safe place to run some surround sound speaker wire? I had this wire run underneath the carpet and it worked well.

And thanks a ton, again, for your help. Your advice sounds good and I will try and post pictures as I can, of the progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Pine flooring over concrete slab
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:25 am 
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Location: Coeur 'd Alene, Idaho
JustinTX wrote:
Thanks again, and to the gentlemen who's post I found concerning hand scraping - God bless you. I've been looking for tips on hand scraping floors for 2 months.


If you are referring to the post I wrote last year ... you, sir, are very welcome! :mrgreen:

And if you look close at what I use as my user name you'll notice that HE already has .... not to mention I'm a Texan too .. transplanted to yankee-land :roll: oh well ...

Have fun on your project and follow Gary's excellent advice ... You'll do great!!

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William
Heritage Hardwood Floors
Coeur 'd Alene, ID


In order to achieve what the competition cannot grasp, we must complete what they will not attempt. Nobody ever said it would be easy, but it's darn sure worth it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:03 pm 
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Yes, I am! I had read your post a couple of days ago and forgot your user name. I don't think I will forget it now!

Yeah, I always admire people like Gary who spend so much time on boards similar to this one helping other people. I'm a CPA by trade, so, any questions, ask away! With so much garbage on the internet to filter through these days, this one and a few others are a nice change of pace.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:14 pm 
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Location: Coeur 'd Alene, Idaho
CPA!?!? and you have time THIS time of year to play with wood floors??? :?

You musta gotten done early. You anywhere near Dallas? My mom is an accounting clerk in Las Colinas.

Hope your getting some rain wherever you're at .. Mom says Lake Tawakoni is lowest we've ever seen. Boats in slips are sitting in mud. Not good.

If you can add some pics of your job to this thread as you go ... very few people do and im sure Gary would love to see the results of some of his advice ...

GBY,

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William
Heritage Hardwood Floors
Coeur 'd Alene, ID


In order to achieve what the competition cannot grasp, we must complete what they will not attempt. Nobody ever said it would be easy, but it's darn sure worth it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:56 pm 
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I don't really do taxes or audit as my full time job anymore, I do corporate finance. But I am contracting with a firm in Dallas to do a few (or more) returns this year (to help pay for the floors)!

I worked in Dallas for four years and being a small town boy, it got the better of me, so I took a job in Waco, where I went to college, and I love it!

I know based on doing my mother's floors that my room will probably take me about 4 days to complete, if not more for sanding and finishing. Luckily, it's just a basic square (well, almost) room 20' x 22'. I've already pulled the carpet up and might take some pictures of the room before I do anything to it. I haven't bought the wood yet as I've been trying to find the best source. Pine doesn't exactly come pristene, and some of the boards I've seen you could lay around a corner without cutting it!!!

Anyways, nice to meet you and I hope your mom isn't too busy this time of year either. Last spring was the first in 6 years that I was able to enjoy the nice weather!


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