Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: Re: Not sure if I got what I ordered
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Well, that stinks!! Thanks everyone for your answers. Is everyone saying that neither actually look like Ipe wood??? There were no boxes. The wood came in strapped bundles (you can actually see them in one of the pictures of the living room). Both companies typically do not sell to the general public, they are supposed to be wholesale distributors for other flooring companies. One told me his wood came direct from the mill, I am not sure where the other one came from. I know both mentioned their wood was coming up from ships docking in either Virginia or New Jersey. I am not sure what we will be able to do, if anything, but I don't want to do anything until I figure out exactly what it is. I am trying to find a Botanist to determine what species of wood it is.The problem is, I only have a very small simple of the original floor (the holes from where the baseboard heat came up through) as we used the rest when putting down the floor. This has definitely been a headache and a half. Again, thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate your opinions. Now I just need to figure out how to fix it.


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Amish made hardwood

 Post subject: Re: Not sure if I got what I ordered
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:12 pm 
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dennis wrote:
Ya know, I have to disagree with Gary's evaluation in this one. That wood is not Brazilian Walnut (IPE). The section beside the fireplace is, as well as the vent covers.
I suspect that what you have there is either Jatoba (Brazilian Cherry) or Cumaru (Brazilian Chestnut).
Of course, an analysis of the wood will be your best course of action and you could get in touch with someone in the forestry industry to find out where to send a piece of the wood.


Dennis, I think you need to re-read my post. What I said was:

Quote:
The problem is that these woods come from a variety of sources. And there are various botanical trees being called Brazilian Walnut. The wood you had installed first does not look like what is normally considered Brazilian Walnut or IPE. But it could be, just from a different geographical location. The only way you will KNOW what you have is to send off pieces to someone who can identify the wood, like a botanist.


FYI :

Brazilian Walnut Species Details (Back to Species List)

Detailed information pertaining to Brazilian Walnut (Tabebuia, spp) is detailed below:
Specie Names
Lumber Name(s): Ipe, Cortez.
Grown in: Brazil, Bolivia, Peru, Venezuela, Guatemala.
Description
Brazilian Walnut is a very dense hardwood with exceedingly fine graining. Its overall color depends on where it's grown and will range from a light yellowish tan to a deep, rich brown.
Color Range and Color Change
Color Range: Brazilian Walnut color range varies considerably based on where it grows. It can vary from a light yellowish tan color with greenish overtones to an almost blackish brown.
WFI offers Brazilian Walnut in the medium brown tones.
Color Change: Brazilian Walnut when freshly milled will exhibit a large range of coloration, which will quickly mute into a more uniform range which then will darken over time to a medium to dark brown color.
Special Characteristics and Issues
Site Sanding/ Finishing: This species has a number of alkalines in its chemical makeup which interfere with drying, adhesion and staining. While some oil finishes will dry on this wood, most will not. Also, some neutral oil finishes have reacted with these alkalines and turned red when used with this wood. A water-based finish is the safest bet. ALWAYS test the finish you propose to use FIRST on test pieces to ensure compatibility.
Allergic Reactions: Brazilian Walnut has been known to cause respiratory and contact dermatitis allergic reactions. Care should be taken when exposed to the dust of Brazilian Walnut.


Based on this information, exactly what about my evaluation do you disagree with?


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 Post subject: Re: Not sure if I got what I ordered
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:05 am 
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I bow to the master, :lol: The description given of the colour range, while accurate, is of more interest to a botanist rather than the flooring industry. IPE that is used as flooring product is selected to be in the colour range of American Walnut. Hence the term : "Brazilian Walnut" . As you know, IPE is NOT Walnut, CUMARU is NOT Chestnut, JATOBA is NOT Cherry. And so on.
These woods are given names that will be recognizable by the general public for characteristics that they are familiar with. (other than the hardness factor, of course.)
I guess what I am saying is that IPE that is tan coloured would most likely be given some other domestic wood reference familiar to the consumer if used as flooring material (Brazilian Birch, perhaps?)

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 Post subject: Re: Not sure if I got what I ordered
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Quote:
The description given of the colour range, while accurate, is of more interest to a botanist rather than the flooring industry.


Perhaps, except the description above was from WFI, a flooring manufacturer.

Quote:
Hence the term : "Brazilian Walnut" . As you know, IPE is NOT Walnut, CUMARU is NOT Chestnut, JATOBA is NOT Cherry. And so on.
These woods are given names that will be recognizable by the general public for characteristics that they are familiar with.


Yep, I am aware of that. When I first started installing those South American imports in the early 90's, no one could tell me much about them. So I learned all I could to better educate my customers. This including telling them that these imports in no way, resembled their North American counterparts that they were being named after.

Quote:
I guess what I am saying is that IPE that is tan coloured would most likely be given some other domestic wood reference familiar to the consumer if used as flooring material (Brazilian Birch, perhaps?)


I don't know about this. I have not seen an example of what you speak. I have seen woods that are unacceptable for flooring used for something else, like pallets. But I have yet to see Ipe called something other than it's botanical name or common name. But the same wood will be called different things in different area. Same with Cumaru, Jatoba, Coco Bola, and many others. The name "Brazilian Walnut" was given to the wood "Ipe" by the South American exporters as a way of marketing the wood.

Here's what one manufacturer has to say:

Family Name for Ipe Lumber:
Tabebuia of family Bignoniaceae
Common Names:
Ipe wood is known by many names: Ipe Brazil, Amapa, cortex, Guayacan, Flor Amarillo, Greenheart, Madera negra, Tahuari, Lapacho negro. It has a number of trade names: Ironwood™, Pau Lope™ & Brazilian Walnut... these are commercial names given to Ipe lumber by large Brazilian exporters.


And another:

Ipe Hardwood Flooring is referred to by many names depending on the country of origin and who is making the flooring. Brand names like Ironwood™ and Pau Lope™ are common as are “consumer names” like Brazilian Walnut. For some reason, North American retailers think referring to it as a walnut will make it more understandable to today’s consumers.

Ipe is really a cluster of many trees from the Bignoniaceae family (Tabebuia, spp) that share a common appearance and physical characteristics. They are all dense and rather straight grained. Some pieces look quite similar to teak. It is very resistant to decay, termite and dry insect attack, although this is not significant (I hope) when choosing ipe as interior flooring. It is VERY fire resistant as well.

Colour range varies from a medium straw with olive green overtones
to a reddish brown with darker black streaks common in some boxes of ipe hardwood. Flooring samples can then have a very large range of colours. Make sure that you understand this, and don’t buy, expecting colour uniformity. It is always best, if possible to visit a customer that has had this type of flooring in use for a number of years. You can then judge not only the appeal of the colouring but also the durability of the finish.


All that said, my point is the poster most likely did get some form of Ipe lumber flooring. But the client went ahead and had the first floor installed, even though he questioned the material. This was a mistake on his part. I do believe he got some form of Ipe, but certainly not what most of the better manufacturers would have supplied. It may have been #1 common or whatever form of grading is used in South America. The poster should have never installed the first floor if he did not like it's appearance. I am afraid he is stuck. You know the adage. Once it's installed, it's yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Not sure if I got what I ordered
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:10 pm 
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dennis wrote:
I bow to the master, :lol: The description given of the colour range, while accurate, is of more interest to a botanist rather than the flooring industry. IPE that is used as flooring product is selected to be in the colour range of American Walnut. Hence the term : "Brazilian Walnut" . As you know, IPE is NOT Walnut, CUMARU is NOT Chestnut, JATOBA is NOT Cherry. And so on.
These woods are given names that will be recognizable by the general public for characteristics that they are familiar with. (other than the hardness factor, of course.)
I guess what I am saying is that IPE that is tan coloured would most likely be given some other domestic wood reference familiar to the consumer if used as flooring material (Brazilian Birch, perhaps?)



I agree. Had a builder tell me the LL Brazilian Mesquite was the same species as the ones here in the SW. I checked the name and it came up as part of the Mahogany family. So, you can get anything as long as it looks similar. Then couple it with those guys like Dennis that use to many "u's" in their words. :P

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Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
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 Post subject: Re: Not sure if I got what I ordered
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:55 am 
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Quote:
Then couple it with those guys like Dennis that use to many "u's" in their words. :P


Waddya mean "too many "me's" :lol:

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