My floors have been professionally refinished and the job was completed approximately 2 weeks ago. It was a full sand, stain, and finish. The contractor referred to it as a "4-coat process": 1 stain (Duraseal Quick Coat), 1 "oil based sealer", 2 coats of water based poly Arboritec Avenue 20 satin finish. I'm not sure of the sanding sequence they used, the only thing I recall finding around the house was small circular sanding discs in 36 and 80 grit.

I stayed off the floor for 72 hours. The first thing I noticed when stepping on the floor in socks and also running my hands over the floor is a feel of "roughness", like the sock fibers were getting caught on things, almost a sandy feeling. It does not have a slick/glide feel to it at all. Also the feel of the grain is very, very obvious. It just has zero slickness to it at all and it almost feels like you can feel every nook and cranny of the boards, as if there is no body to the finish at all.

Any thoughts? Would a "screen and recoat" fix this? Or am I in a bad spot? With 2 coats of satin on there already, will I start running into cloudiness with a screen and recoat with satin again?

recoating will correct finish issues provided good prep practice and finish used.

It will not correct any sanding concerns if they exist.

Thanks for the response.

Is there a sure way to tell if the whole floor will need to be re-sanded? If I had to guess, the highest grit they used on sanding the actual wood was probably 80, but I cannot say for sure, that is just based on what they left behind. The floor appears to be even and uniform to me in the sense that I do not feel any board edges when running my hand across the floor board-to-board. It is just the general roughness of the finish, grain raise, and the fact that it seems like there is no smoothness to the face of the boards at all. It seems you can feel every ridge and the larger grain segments.

Feeling and seeing the grain is normal..it wont be a table top..its the srpingwood or soft grain as we call it..

another coat will help make it less of an issue.

It sounds like they might not have screened the floor, which is not that big of a deal. It also sounds like they didn't put the water-based coats on thick enough, and if that's the case, adding more coats will help.

If they buffed any of the coats (the sealer, or one of the finish coats), you shouldn't be feeling that roughness.

I spoke to the project manager Friday afternoon (this particular company has a project manager who manages various crews who do the work). He said they looked beautiful and turned out fine. He says they do all the floors the same and he told me the sanding sequence but I forget the exact grits he mentioned. I think he said they do a 100 grit screen on the bare wood before stain. Then 1 coat stain (Duraseal Quick Coat), 1 coat "oil based sealer", 1 coat water based poly, screen, final coat water based poly. I went to the house every night and saw the crew working and I believe for the poly they were using a roller as an applicator for the final coat. The crew seemed like nice enough guys. The one guy said he had been doing it for 15 years and had pictures of expensive looking homes on his phone that he showed me.

My main concern is the lack of "slickness". When I asked the project manager about this he gave me a few different stories. The main thing he said was, they turned out as expected. He also said this product (Arboritec Avenue http://www.arboritec.com/arboritec-usa/ ... al/avenue/) is a "penetrating" finish and does not "sit on top" of the wood like other finishes. He said if I wanted a finish like a "piano top" he would put down an oil based poly, but its not what I paid for (I had to upgrade to water based poly for additional cost on our proposal). He said he could do a third coat of water based poly for extra money, but the ending result would be similar. I mentioned that I see on an almost daily basis a floor that was finished with Basic Streetshoe and it is slick. His explanation was that this was a different type of finish, not "penetrating". He also noted that satin finishes have "less solids" in them (I mentioned the streetshoe floor was a semi-gloss).

Maybe I'm expecting something that I shouldn't? The only floors I've been in contact with have been water-based semi-gloss or old, old oil based natural looking floors. Both are "slick" in the sense that you can take your thumb and make a squeak noise on the finish, or glide on them in socks. My floors just do not have that feel to them. The floors are "fresh" in the sense that there have been basically 0 traffic on them since finishing.

I could post some pictures, but I'm not sure it would help in this particular case. I can try to get some close-up angle shots, but really nothing will exemplify the "feel" of the floors without touching. I'm thinking of contacting the finish manufacturer and seeing if there is anyone in my area (northeast Illinois / Southeast WI) but it is probably a long shot. Just need to get a second opinion on these by someone who won't try to sell me there services.

The product does not fit the definition of a "penetrating" finish, to me. Penetrating finishes are not polyurethanes--they are oils that penetrate into the wood, and protect by sealing it. They also need to be renewed periodically. The product on this site is a two-part commercial polyurethane. It should produce what he is referring to an a "piano top" finish.



You don't need oil poly for that effect. Either water-based or oil poly should give you the 'slick' effect you're looking for. If he was going to put down oil, he would have to wait weeks to put it on top of water--that's the recommendation. If he uses another coat of water-based, he can do it immediately.



The product on the website looks to be the same as Streetshoe--a water-based polyurethane. It's actually better than Streetshoe--it's a two-part commercial finish.



That's exactly what you need to do. Have another company come out for a consultation. The money you're going to spend on that is well worth it. The rep you're talking to now is going to dispute everything I'm saying here, but a third party can verify yea or nay on what I'm telling you, and what's he's telling you. A third party can also inspect the floor, and he'll know right away whether it's up to standard.

I'm not going to do name-calling on the project manager; it sounds like the company is reputable, and you're getting a good floor job in every other respect. His information seems contradictory to me, but I'm not on site--there could be another explanation for what he's telling you. I still think they haven't buffed any of the coats, and that's why you're getting the roughness.

Thanks for the responses. I will try to get someone else out to take a look, but I think it might be tough getting another local company who won't try to just tell me its a horrible job because they want to get work out of it. I had 3 people give me estimates, one of which called me back and kind of gave me an earful for going with another company. I could try to have him in, he uses streetshoe, but I know he'll say its a bad job just so he can try to get work.

Overall I am happy with the floor's color and appearance and I think they did a good job sanding as I feel virtually no board edges. 75% of the wood floor was existing in the house under carpet. There are some areas in this 75% where the subfloor squeaks and there are some pops too, but the area where they installed new doesn't seem to have this, so I wouldn't say they're at fault for that, its just an old house. Its possible that my subfloor may only be 1/2" thick plywood throughout the entire house.

I am just hung up on the "feel" of the floor. I have noticed the "grippyness / sandpapery" feeling has lessened as I have walked/slid on the floor more and more in socks, so some of that might be attributed to debris on the final coat coming off? But it doesn't have that slick/ice-like type glide to it that I have seen on friends' water based semi-gloss floors and the grain seems to have noticeably more texture to it than friends floors do.

The project manager also said he could have his sales rep who sells him the finish come out and take a look. He said we could also have it inspected by an NWFA person but it would cost $750.

If I were to have a 3rd coat of the same product as above applied in satin finish, would I start to have "cloudiness" issues because of all the satin?

the reason it feels rough is improper prep and/or clean up...

the way it sounds they built 2 coatings over the stain before the first buffing was actually done

not enough.

no problem going satin again..
the MGR is blowing smoke avoiding an callback..( so I assume on the info provided)..i never understood this approach to doing business..you are unhappy..will remain unhappy..not recommend them..all so they dont need to eat a coat?

freaking stupid..

waterbase is a topcoat..not a penetrant.

Alloy 7 is correct on many accounts except for the fact that Street Shoe is a 2 component finish wand was the industry leader for more than a decade..a great product..it was the finish to beat..all went to bat to compete against it

He told me their "process" is to do a screening in between the 1st and 2nd coats of poly, I don't remember with what grit he said, if he mentioned it. Were they supposed to have done anything after the final coat was rolled on?

When I spoke to him he said they could do another coat of the water poly but then he said "the results would be the same/it will still feel the same".

If the consensus is a screen and re-coat / 3rd coat will fix this, what should I be ensuring they are going to do? What is the typical sequence of a screen and re-coat, and is it just 1 coat they're putting down? Should I push for them to use a different water-based product like Streetshoe or Traffic or will using a different product potentially cause issues with whatever was initially used on the floor?

If you feel there's a problem with the job, it's the original company's responsibility to answer your questions and / or fix the problem. The consultant is not coming out to fix anything. They're only there to provide you with information, and let you know whether your impression of the floor (that it's too rough) is correct or not. If the consultant says it's not acceptable, you'll have a professional opinion to back up your position.

I stand corrected, James. I thought Street Shoe was comparable to Mega--the basic one-part finish for residential use.




You don't need a different product--the one they're using should be OK. One coat is all you need. 180 or 240 sanding paper or discs are what they should be using to buff the coat that's on there now.



I'm not sure why he would say this, so it seems all the more reason to bring out someone who's familiar with what a finished product should feel like.

The house is currently being painted, so once they are done I am going to vacuum, dustmop, and clean the floors just using water in a spray bottle and a microfiber towel.

I checked the NWFA site and there are several certified inspectors. I'm right in between Milwaukee and Chicago so I will call around. I hate to spend a ton of money getting it inspected, I really only want the finish examined. I'm pretty sure the whole house only has 1/2" plywood as the subfloor so if they do a full inspection they might bring that up.

When I stopped by and the guys were applying the final coat, they had the finish poured out in plastic-lined boxes which they were dipping their rollers in and then rolling the finish on. Could the texture be due to using a roller instead of a t-bar?

The roller or the t-bar shouldn't make any difference. I've never used a roller with water-based, but I can't see why it would affect the smoothness of the surface. You don't really need a NWFA inspector for this issue. If you were upset about a $15,000 install that went wrong, then the $750 for an inspector would be justified. As you said, you just need someone to examine the finish. Any licensed floor company can do that.

I'm going to have a local guy look at it tonight who I have no prior relationship with. I'm also having the owner of the company who did the refinish look at it this weekend. When speaking to the owner on the phone, he got very defensive very quickly, so it should be interesting to see what he says. Probably the same stuff as his employee who looked earlier.

The house is currently being painted and being walked on quite a bit. Some of the "roughness" seems to better, but I cannot tell if I'm imagining things now. The floor still does not have the "slickness" or build that I anticipated and have seen on other floors, but maybe I am expecting something I shouldn't?

I have concerns about the subfloor now, which is unrelated to the job done by the refinish company. I'll save that for a new thread

Here is an update: I had the owner of the company who did the work take a look and he said it is a little rough feeling, but that is how this finish feels. He said it is not comparable to coats of semi gloss Streetshoe, which is the floor I always refer to when talking to him (this floor has 2 coats of sealer and 2 coats of streetshoe and feels very smooth, nothing like mine). They would do another coat, and would give me a "deal" on the price. I also had a different local guy come out. He took a look, said it didn't seem too bad, but could probably use another coat of finish. I spoke to an NWFA certified installer who works at a local supply house, who coincidentally is a sales rep for the finish used on my floor and also supplies the company who did the work on my floor. He did not see the floors in person, but said from "how I described" the floors, it sounds indicative of this product.

I guess my main issue is this very defined, raised, "sharp" feeling grain, as if it is raised up above the rest of the surface. Also the floor as a whole feels "dry" and does not have a smoothness to it that I'm used to seeing.

I am considering having it buffed and re-coated with two coats of satin Streetshoe by a different company.

I have a few questions.

The person doing the buff and recoat says they will use pads to buff the floor (maroon pad, etc). Is this standard and will it smooth things out?

Will a buff and recoat fix "grain raise" if that is what I am seeing? Or am I out of luck because potentially improper sanding or not enough sealer?

For reference, the products currently used on the floor should be 1 coat stain, 1 coat sealer, 2 coats Arboritec Avenue. I would have it buffed using pads, then 2 coats of Streetshoe. Am I bordering on "too much finish"?