This post could just as easily have been slotted in under the 'Lumber liquidators' page, but I'll post it here as it's more about laying the wood rather than about the company.

As part of a rehab project for the home we purchased, I purchased a batch of solid 3/8" x 3" Brazilian Koa (Tigerwood) from LL at a real knockdown price, as the lengths were in the 1' to 3' range and the boxes contained a few pieces with milling marks - what I would call thickness planer bumps. The asking price, from memory, was something like $1.50 per square foot so I wasn't going to quibble over some wastage. When I got home I discovered that there was more than 'just a few' bad pieces, especially in a few of the boxes, and after complaining to LL they gave me an extra few boxes to make up for the problem. On the flip side, a number of the boxes contained a considerable number of of lengthier pieces, up to 4' - 5', so all in all it appeared the deal worked out well. I took the pieces with the indentations, cut off the offending sections, and placed the remainders in separate boxes marked for usage on either the left or right ends of the room in question. I’d say I probably ended up with about 10% - 15% wastage.

All that was about 10 months ago. I have had to strip out and rework virtually an entire home interior on my own, and it's only now that I've finally managed to get around to rehabbing the main lounge area, which is where I've had the flooring stored to get it acclimated to the room. I opened up some of the boxes just the other day and noticed for the first time that a number of the planks were bowed - not much, and maybe they were like that in the first place and I didn't notice, as I was more concerned with searching out the damaged pieces than anything else.

So now I'm ready to to start laying the floor, and suddenly I'm getting a little nervous, as I feel I should have done my homework a bit better before buying all the wood, glue, etc. When you have a million and one things to consider in a project you don't necessarily have the time to always sit down and explore every single thing you're doing until it comes time to do it, and as we were required by the bank at the time to make some huge bulk purchases I lumped the wood purchase in with everything else, asked a pile of questions at LL that seemed to be satisfactory, and slotted it all away until the day would arrive when I'd have to lay down the wood.

Over the last couple of days I've been doing some research on the net and realized that I might have some problems. Of course the first thing I discovered was LL's less than stellar reputation on forums such as this, and started wondering if we'd bought into a problem with the flooring we'd purchased. Aside from the bowing mentioned I see no issues with the wood such as cracking or anything else, so maybe we've been fortunate, though most of the problems I've read about seem to deal with laminated Koa rather than the solid variant.

My other concern is with moisture and the glue we bought. A lot of sites state that gluing solid wood to concrete is a no no, though the installer from LL I spoke to a couple of days ago (and he seemed a genuine guy rather than an over-the-top salesman type) stated that a lot of what was going around was based on thoughts concerning older glues and methods and that more modern glues such as Mapei ECO 995 made the task workable and easier. He did state that I could still go the route of first using a sealer, but pointed out that if the standard test with plastic taped down for 24 hours showed no moisture than I'd probably be safe just using the Roberts 1408 we purchased elsewhere 10 months ago, even though he said it was not the greatest glue going around.

So does anyone have any thoughts on the matter? If I have no moisture issues (I'll know tomorrow morning) am I safe using the Roberts glue as is, or should I a) put a sealer down or b) trade in the Roberts and upgrade to a better glue like the Mapei or a Bostik variant?

Also, what's the argument for or against using a roller? I've seen all sorts of stuff one way or the other. Some say walk on the wood after a few hours, other say don't go near it for 24 hours with or without a roller, some say they work on the wood once they've laid enough and that should be good enough to ensure adhesion, still others say taping is good enough.

As for the bowed pieces, what’s acceptable and what isn’t? Most with the problem don’t seem to have more than a ¼” to 3/8” rise in the middle over a 3’ length which is easy enough to push down, and I figure once in the opposing grooves of neighboring pieces they should be fine. If not I should be okay anyway, as I have twice as much flooring as I’ll need – we bought enough to include 20% wastage, on top of which we were also going to lay the wood in a dining area which we later decided to tile.

One last point. I have an area of the room where there's a considerable dip, and I was going to use self-leveling compound to correct the problem. However, the guy from LL said his preferred method was using thinset, and I saw a mention of it here as well. Does it work, what kind of mix do you make up, and how is it adhesive-wise with glue down work - do I need to seal it regardless of the type of glue?

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the overlong post.

Whoaa. Be prepared for that "you bought it, your problem" discussion. Oh no, that's that other hardwood message board.

3/8" sounds like quite a bit with short pieces. I would opt for a trowel with ridges that can handle that. This would lead to a very unpleasant installation as glue would be oozing all over. I've never worked with the Roberts but you do want something that pulls the wood down. Okay, it's a urethane glue. That'll work, but my guess is the glue may not be any good after a year. More like a bucket of rubber now.

I'd work for good coverage on the glue making sure of proper transfer with the wood and subfloor. I'd be walking all over it to get the bond needed...everyone is different and what has worked best for them.

Floor patch? Self leveling? I did a video awhile back. Gets the point across but not the best quality.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhwbIf8haP4[/youtube]

I would return the Roberts, I'm sure you bought it at one of the big box stores, just don't bring your receipt and take the store credit, then go back to LL and buy the Bostiks.

Nice video Ken!

I wouldn't use thinset unless it was a floater. It does not set to a hard enough psi. Then the thinset will simply pull off the substrate with the glue when it decides to move.

And you need primer for SLC. Most adhesive manufacturers want SLC or patching compounds over the top of any moisture mitigation system or trowel on vapor retarders. If you must use a patch prior to using a 2 n 1 adhesive/vapor retarder glue system it must be exterior grade or the product they recommend as any interior grade under them can re-emusify...ie turn to mush.

Hi again,
Thanks for the responses, though I’m probably just as confused as ever regarding some of the answers!

The good news? This morning I pulled up the two pieces of plastic I taped down yesterday at different ends of the room in question and they were both bone dry. As we live on central Florida and its high water table I wondered if we might have issues, but as the house is on a slope I guess that made a difference, particularly as the room in question is on the downhill side of the house and about 3' - 4' about the natural level of the slope.

A couple of points to the responses –

@Ken. I’m not exactly sure what you mean by the lengths and thickness being an issue or exactly what kind of trowel you’re suggesting. Why is the length of such concern? As I said, I have nearly twice as much flooring as I need, so I could probably sidestep most if not all of the shorter lengths and primarily use the lengths in the 3’ – 5’ range, maybe keeping shorter pieces for the ends – would that help?

And are you saying that it IS okay to walk on the pieces (in place of a roller) to make sure they adhere properly – I keep reading wildly divergent views on the subject?

As for the self-leveling side of things, I watched the clip and thought –okay, I thought the stuff was supposed to be self-leveling, why all the work?! I’ve never done it before obviously, and I had always thought the name implied that the material was liquid enough that gravity did the job of making the material naturally find its own level. Guess I’ll have to go out and get the appropriate tools - one more task to learn!

@Jeff – I’d already thought along those lines after what the LL guy said, as I’ve already had to return bits and pieces that I couldn’t find the receipts for during this home rehab project. Only problem is that the manufacturer seems to have switched the containers from metal to plastic since I bought the three 4 gallon containers and Home Depot may not take them back. I could simply try and sell them on Craigslist, but after what you said I don’t want to rip someone off with glue that might have gone bad. Can I pop open one of them to check without compromising it?

As for the Bostiks, I’m not sure what your answer, together with Stephen’s, implies. Are you guys suggesting the two-step process, or something like Bostik’s version of the single step glue? If the two-step of sealer and glue, could you offer some specifics?

Finally, any thoughts on the bowed pieces I mentioned?

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry to sound such a newb, but wood flooring is just one of those things I’ve never done before. I’ve done any amount of tiling, and can take on just about anything else around a house from electrical, plumbing, drywall, knockdown, cabinet installation, construction and woodworking in general which is my specialty – I worked as a craftsman for nearly two decades. After all this is done, my next lesson’s going to be in re-shingling a roof!

What you need to try to do is place the bowed board on the floor, step on it, and bang it with a mallet using a block to avoid any further damage to the pieces. In most cases the board will fit. In some cases you might need to cut the bowed board in half and use half as an end piece, and the other half as a begin piece.

Hi there,
Actually, doesn't even need the mallet or block - at 3/8" the pieces are so flexible that I can push them flat with a couple of fingers and slot them into the adjoining piece with ease (I laid some lengths out to test them. Most that are bowed are probably 1/4" - 3/8" out of alignment in the middle. so it's not like they're really bad - I'm no expert obviously, but a pal whose laid a few of his own floors said it's not at all unusual to find pieces slightly bowed like mine.

It's up to you what you want to do with the glue, but I had a problem with Roberts not holding and repaired it with Bostik's Best. I don't think you need the 2 step if the plastic was dry but it's up to you if you want to spend the money for piece of mind. As for the bowed boards probably not an issue as you said adjacent boards will hold them down. i don't like rolling, i get nervous about the heavy roller leaving dents in the wood. I use blue tape and walk on it as well as putting full boxes on it as I work.

Thanks for the response Jeff.

You actually echoed what the guy from LL suggested to me, that he doesn't like using rollers because they might scratch/mark the wood. So I guess I'll tape it all well and take your tip of walking carefully on the floor every few hours. I also have tons of books (literally) stored in dozens and dozens of boxes, so I could lay them down if necessary. Should a couple of days do it to ensure proper adhesion?

I'll tell you what - seeing as we already invested close on $300 for the three drums of glue, I'll take them back to HD and see if they'll accept them. If so I'll then try the Bostik's Best (I think I'd only need two drums for a room 23 x 13) If HD won't take them back then I'll give the Roberts a whirl. I realize it was a mistake now, but I don't know that we can afford to throw away $300 when we're already stretched pretty thin trying to do so much work on the house on a tight budget.

Whether I use the Roberts or the Bostik, I'll still have to seal/prime the areas where I lay down SLC, right, according to what Stephen said? Didn't I read somewhere that you have to use a matching primer to the glue you use, as different products don't necessarily match up in a 2-step process?

Thanks again for the help.

Tim

I would never trust a plastic mat test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAIjz9Io ... e=youtu.be
Do what the adhesive manufacturer advises on moisture testing, but never rely on a plastic mat test. Then there are people out there who perform this test wrong. I have seen people use Syran Wrap. LOL Jason here tells you how to perfom the test correctly.
Does your slab have a plastic vapor barrier under it? If not you better use some Bostik MVP4 first. It's only another buck a ft or less.

Never use another manufacturers vapor retarder. If something should go wrong you get a "It's their products problem, not ours" back and forth thing.

I always use a 100lb roller and I haven't seen many that say NOT to use one. Bowed boards have a tendency to lift out of the adhesive. Cut them and use them for starters and ends.

@Jeff
Okay, managed to return the three drums of Roberts glue and started trawling around on the net to see where I could get Bostik's Best here in Orlando only to come up with a problem - according to what I read on HD's site (http://www.homedepot.com/buy/flooring-f ... 47024.html) its only to be used with engineered flooring - is that correct or not? Oddly enough, even though HD advertises it online, it's not available locally.

@Stephen. Regarding the plastic under the slab, I have no idea. House was built in the 70's so anything goes, though I'd imagine that anyone putting up a house in Florida would take that measure. I know in my home country of Australia that it's long been standard.

I don't have an issue with going for the more extensive testing for moisture, and if the Bostik's Best is okay I'll use the MVP4 first. It can go straight over the SLC once it's dried, right? By the way, I used 4 mil. clear plastic sheet in 2 different areas of the room, well taped down - not a hint of moisture, as far as that process is concerned.

As for the roller issue, you and Jeff are confusing me - my brain's really starting to throb! One says no, the other says yes - how about the two of you step outside and duke it out, then the winner can get back to me on what I should do!? How soon after you lay the floor do you use the roller? I guess if you have to use the roller that you're walking on the surface anyway, so Jeff's point is valid, the difference being that the weight isn't being distributed as evenly as the roller would apply.

Thanks again....Tim

I have always rolled I roll within 1/2 hour of setting planks into the adhesive. And various 2-3 hour intervals over the day. Weight down stubborn areas.

There's no way your going to "walk off the floor", and cover 100% of the material installed. If the roller is clean, and the hardwood is swept of any debris....you will not damage the floor.

Stated on Bostik's cans of adhesive, & PDF's...
"Rolling is recommended for all installations. Flooring that is not flat should be tacked, weighted, or rolled to ensure proper contact between the flooring and the substrate."

See,even Howard the ModGod agrees. I don't think there's many floors out there that if adhering to a substrate you do not roll with either a 35lb, 50 lb or 100 lb roller.

Never listen to salesman.

Okay, I'm sold, I'll hire a roller for a couple of days.

I'd happily lay the boxes of books as well, but I'm a tad worried if I accidently squeeze out some glue I won't see it until it's dried and too late.

Thanks for all the feedback, and a great Christmas to all.

Tim