newbie: floor prep and racking

Inbound · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 19

Okay, i've spent about 5 days reading lots of posts (including the sticky in this forum) but i still have a few questions.

1) I have 2x8 T&G (most with >1/8" gaps) over 4' oc joists. Over that was particle board. I pulled up all the particle board and laid down 5/8 plywood. Could I have left the particle board down and simply laid the 5/8 plywood on top of that?

2) When I rack several rows in advanced and take the extra from the first row and start the second row with it (assuming the left over is long enough) my second rows rack will be thrown off. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of racking?

Thanks for an excellent site!

KevinD · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:14 pm

1. It's a little late to ask now but I would have removed that junk anyway.

2. I usually rack out the first area to be installed and save the starters for the next area to be racked out. In order to use them initially you will have to cut the ends as you go.

Inbound · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 19

1. Actually it's not too late just yet. I've only done one small room. The reason I asked was in case I could have saved some blisters & time pulling up the particle board throught my other rooms. It took me about 8 hours to pull up a 12x9' room.

2. Ah ha! Now that makes sense.

Thanks for your reply.

Inbound · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 19

I want to come back to my 1st question below. I'm going to start preparing the rest of my floors, about 850 sq ft. Does anyone see any problems leaving the particle board and adding new 1/2" plywood over it? The reason I'm pressing for keeping the particle board is the amount of work it takes to remove and dispose of it.

Second part of this follow-up question: since I took the particle board out of one bedroom and already finished the install in that room will there be a problem using a transition strip to make the 1/2" drop to the bedroom at the end of the hall?

Current floor is 4' oc 4x6, 2x8 t&g, particle board, carpet.

Gary · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:26 am

Both the NWFA and NOFMA state the hardwood floors are not to be nailed into or through particle board. So, to answer your question, the particle board should be removed. This is the correct way to do it. You could have left the particle board in place had you chosen to install a floating or glued down hardwood floor. It would not have been ideal but acceptable. However, some particle board that has been in place for awhile is not acceptable for a glue down either because the surface has deteriorated. Why not hire some laborers?

ChuckCoffer · **Joined:** Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:19 am **Posts:** 703

Particle board is not hard to remove if you are smart about it. All you need is a cat-claw and a good mallet(not a hammer) Remove all of the nails first. Then just pick the stuff up and carry it out. 500 square feet a day should be no big deal.

Inbound · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 19

Using day laborers is a good idea but I'd want to be here when they worked which isn't feasible. Basically I'll be doing the job after I come home from work and on weekends and filling my trash can with debris.
I grabbed this quote from Ken's sticky:

Quote:

Subject: Particle Board or OSB? Subfloors & Underlayment Types.

...These subfloors should NOT be removed [talking about particle board] but overlayed with 1/2" CDX plywood that is well stapled (2" around perimeter and 6" oc.) or glued or screwed. In all cases, subfloors and underlayments are to be flat to within 3/16" in a 10' radius.

Sorry, I'm still a little confused on this part unless I'm misreading what Ken is saying above. I'm not trying to be difficult, and I truly appreciate all the help you have provided me.

ChuckCoffer · **Joined:** Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:19 am **Posts:** 703

Particle board is underlayment unless you live in a trailer. Then it is subfloor.

Inbound · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 19

Thanks for the clarification. I'll be ripping 'er up then!

jabwoodworks · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:52 am

particle board cracks beneath your flooring when the staples run through it, this inevitably leads to a squeaky floor. It can also keep your fasteners from reaching the sub floor.
i got involved in a floor that a homeowner had half way completed, he had installed the 2.25 inch oak over the particle board. I completed the job, sanded and finished. I stated that I would not warranty the floors installation, but that I wouldnt doubt it if the floor squeeked, or started eccessively moving in the future.
That was a year ago, I ran into him in the hardware store, he said the floor was great, and that he was right.... laying over the particle board was fine.

good luck,

Gary · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:43 am

Inbound,
That quote you took was from the article I submitted. One of the reasons I wrote the article was to help homeowners differenciate between SUBFLOORS and UNDERLAYMENTS. I thought I had clearly explained the difference in this way:

Quote:

Subfloors......... Are the deck/wood floor a home is built on. The subflooring can be different materials and is always attached directly to the joists/trusses. Go in your basement/crawlspace and look between your joists. That material nailed to the tops of your floor joists is your subfloor.
Underlayment.............. If your have a vinyl floor in your home and you have wood subfloors, most likely you will have underlayment. Underlayment is used to provide a smoother substrate for some floor coverings, like sheet vinyl. It is also used to raise one area up to be even with another floor. It is used to provide a suitable substrate for tile ( like Hardi Backer Board) and used to stiffen the subfloor. It comes in many types: particle board, plywood, OSB, cementious tile backer board, sheet rock has been used, luan, masonite, etc. And more are being developed all the time. Underlayments are not subfloors and subfloors are not underlayments. Underlayments can be safely removed; subfloors should never be removed EXCEPT for damage or remodeling and only by licensed, knowledgeable contractors. Underlayments always go on top of subfloors and are usually stapled but can be nailed, glued, screwed, etc.

If you had read this thoroughly, you would have understood that your particle board is an UNDERLAYMENT and not a SUBFLOOR. On a side note. We can only recommend what we, as pros, know will work. The fact is, leaving p. board down and going over it is done all the time by less inspired contractors and unknowledgable homeowners. Will those floors have problems? Given enough time, most of those floors will show signs of problems over time as the fasteners continue to lose their grip and the p.board continues to deteriorate.

Inbound · **Joined:** Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:56 pm **Posts:** 19

Thanks, Ken. You explained it clearly..... Well, anyway I appreciate everyone's help.

newbie: floor prep and racking

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