We had the blonde hardwood floors refinished and stained with dark walnut. However, the color is not as dark as we expected. The grain has picked up and darkened, but the "flat" portions of the wood are more of an oak color and even have some red in them. We are disappointed and don't know if we can re-stain to get darker. Can older floors only get so dark? Is it true that if you apply more stain that only grain will get darker? To darken, would we need to strip/refinish down to the bare wood?
Please help!!
Thanks in advance!!!

There are some "tricks" to getting a floor dark. However, once it has been stained, certain options are lost. I employ "water-popping" the grain to achieve a uniform dark color. But this is only done on raw wood. If one sands the floors too fine, the stain will not take as dark. You maybe able to stain again but I wouldn't expect a dramatic difference. Another technique is to add some stain to the first coat of oil based polyurethane and paint the color on. There are also some stains (Minwax makes one) that contain poly and stain all in one and you could try that. None of these look as good as a floor that was water-popped and stained dark to begin with. You'll need to test a few techinques in a closet. Or resand the floors and water pop the grain. Then choose a DARK color, like coffee or ebony.

betty have you finished the floors with varnish or something else?
I often try to acheive a very dark brown black color on some of my wood projects and often am disappointed that the stain is not a dark as I would like.
I recently tried something that worked out pretty good.
i think it is important to experiment on some scraps a bit before you try it.
Get some powder black dye from a woodfinishing supply store or online and mix it with some liquid called NGR(non grain raising) experiment with the proportions so you do not over do it.
Apply it to the floor wood sample (wipe on rub off) let it dry and then try your desired dark brown stain. I have acheived a nice brown black color on even crappy 2x4 framing lumber. Of course it all depends on the nature of the wood you are trying to color.
Anyone, if I am off base here, please let me know as I am not a professional and only know a few things from experience.
Regards,
Salieri

Not a lot you can do now except try the stain/poly thing. Next time do like Gary said, don't sand it too smooth and wipe it with a wet rag, let dry and stain. Do sample areas first.

Gary, I've sometimes struggled with blotchiness in really dark stains. I've sensed that it could be as a result of too fine of sanding and screening. I typically treat ALL floors as though I was staining them simply based on having the best of habits (palm sanding ends, etc.).
I use a Laagler Hummel fine sand to 100 or 120 grit, clark Su. 7r edgers fine sand with 100 or 120 gr., Bosch 6" rand. orb. palm sander with 100gr.(love it), and plate with 100grt 3M Duplex (if floor is semi gloss), then screen with 120grit wall to wall BOTH directions. Definitely a polished floor before finish application and clarity is wonderful. BUT is this too much when staining DARK?
I've been scared to try the water pop. Scared i might not get the water even enough. Scared to leave footprints walking on a popped floor before staining. Just scared of something noones ever 'shown' me. Call me chicken ... it's OK, I've been called worse
I have 500 ft (small enough to try something new) of 3-1/4" #1comm. white oak (new install) to stain as dark as possible this week. Sounds like the customer is OK with Ebony or DARKER.
I know that white oak does not take stain as well as red, but time restrictions would not allow me to wait for something everyone was out of.
Any advice before I go and do the same old thing???
Thank you in advance,
William

Hi William,

Long time no hear from. Hope all is well. I'll tell you what I know and try and walk you through it. It's pretty easy really. But a couple of things first. It hasn't been my experience that w.o. doesn't stain as well as r.o. I think it takes stain just fine, if not better, than red. But that could be personal taste. For staining floors, I think you are sanding them too fine. Which would be ok IF you water pop them. Since you like to really sand those floors super fine, I'll not try to get you to change that if you are having good success with your sanding and are happy with the results. So here's how to water pop without having a problem. I actually do it a little easier and I'll tell you how I do it but you may want to wait before you give my method a try. For a 500 ft floor, you'll need a plastic dish washing pan and about 1&1/2 gal. of clean water. Also some terry towels for wiping. Apply the water like you would if you were staing (ragging on) with the grain. Get the wood evenly wet but not soaking or puddling. You don't need to saturate it but you cannot miss any areas. Wipe up excess as you go. Once you've done the whole floor, allow to air dry overnight. You can use fans after you've popped it but not during. The floor must be absolutely dry. It will be overnight. Now, you're ready to stain. You'll notice that real smooth floor is now kinda rough and fuzzy. That's good! That's what we want. Since you're staining dark, you don't have to worry about getting the floors dirty but don't be foolish either. All the rules for staining apply here. Avoid dragging heavy things around or marking the floors in any way. Soft soled shoes and good knee pads only. On my knee pads, I'll wrap them in towels to prevent them from marking the floors. Now rag your stain on and allow it to soak in a bit. And don't rub too hard. Just take off enough till you get the effect you're going for. Do it in rows and sections like everyone does. Apply evenly and wipe off evenly. Take your time! I charge a lot to stain a floor dark because you must work with the stain and you need to take your time. OK, now you're done staining. How's it look? It should be dark and even, if you did it right and used a good stain. Use something slow drying for your first go round. Like Dura Seal regular stain; not the fast dry stuff. Now you must let the stain absolutely DRY. It could take days. Fans will help. DO NOT OVER HEAT THE HOUSE! When dry, apply the finish of your choice. For waterborne, I like the Bona method, Apply two coats BEFORE buffing. For OMU, apply the first coat somewhat heavy because you need to fill the raised grain and buff LIGHTLY. You need to be careful not to buff the color off. Try using a maroon pad only. You can smooth it more between the next coat. THat's it! You're done.
Alternate way (my way): Instead of ragging on water and stain, I use a Padco Painting Pad. I'm VERY good with this tool because I've used one for 25 yrs. I can do lots of finishing procedures with it and I screw it on a pole and save the knees. Try it out some time. For water popping, it's sorta like a sponge mop but better with more control. Same for staining

Well, there you have it; my way. I hope it works for you and good luck!

Hi Gary, Thanks for rapid response. I like the applicator too and have had great success with them. I assume I shouldn't snoplow the water on.

I like to use a steel wool pad on some stains before Ist coat to help even out.
Not recommended I take it. (helps to get rid of any bleedback or lapmarks )

I will be using Dura Seal Ebony in the square can. I agree with slower drying products. And will finish with 3 coats of Fabulon OMU, satin.

I've read your posts on buffing off stain about 75 sq.ft. at a time. Do you do this method when water popping?

Good night my red eyed night owl friend ...

No buffing with steel wool UNLESS your stain job turns out poorly and you want to re-stain it. I don't buff off dark stains. Rag on, rag off. Or Padco on, rag off. You need to be able to sort of "paint" the floor with the stain; not scrub off every last bit, which is what buffing will do. I only buff off light to medium colors except pastels.

Right 'O' Mr. Gary. As always, your the best. If I remember to bring a camera to this one I'll try to shoot you a picture when all done.

I am going to drag this one back up to offer a suggestion that I use. If you guys have not tried it yet you may want to look into Minwax’s Gel stain products. They provide even coverage and tint for hard to stain woods like pine. It works really well and pore size etc. have no bearing on the absorption of the stain into the wood. It is a gel and therefore can be applied at varying thickness to achieve the desired results. It has saved me hours and it comes in the standard Minwax colors.

How's it work on difficult woods like maple and pine?

Gary,
I am finishing a wainscoting project that was done entirely in pine. I am using a walnut gel stain and I swear if you don’t get right up on the wood you would call it walnut and then only if you are familiar with the grain differences of pine and walnut would you know. It is very consistent and extremely simple to use. Here is the FAQ http://www.minwax.com/products/woodstai ... in-faq.cfm they still say to use a pre-stain conditioner for pine etc but I have never used the conditioner and the results have been great. I will post up some pictures of the wainscoting when I finish it so you can see what the stain looks like on pine.

Thanks! Looking foward to seeing those pics.

Thanks kls, would love to see it too.
Gary, I've asked my salesman to e-mail pics to you of our"opaque" (to say the least) floor. Thanks again.

I have oak t&g wainscot that is very dark, uniform and looks like walnut. Came with the house so I don't how it was done I think it was finished with black walnut Watco oil. Anyway, I just installed some Timber Creek engineered in a Mocha color that is very dark and matches very well. You have to look at the grain to know it isn't walnut.

Don