We purchased Shaw 3/4" Oak Pre-fiinished Hardwood Flooring and hired a professional to install. We have a piano that was the first piece of furniture to be moved onto the hardwood. The installer moved the piano and regrigerator back into place. The wheels on the piano made deep dents in the floor and so did the refrigerator. We are talking a pretty large area about 4X8 where the dents are. The installer used disc like pads under the legs of the piano. Also, every little thing dents the floor. We previously had the pre-finished wood floating flooring for 9 years and it did not dent as easy as the new flooring and really held up pretty well.

We had the store owner that we purchased the flooring come out to see the floor. He said the dent was down into the wood not the finish and he believe the wood was too soft. He contacted Shaw and they said it was the installer's problem. We are just sick about the large dents and they are right in the middle of the floor where you can't hide them.

Have you ever heard of problems with Shaw's flooring?
Have you have had a situation where the wood was just too soft?
Who should be responsible for our damaged floor?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Amy, going by what you typed it would be you and your installers problem.

It is definitely the fault of who ever moved the piano and fridge. I always move them into place on plywood. Most of Shaws products are made in China where the don't harvest properly, so the wood is not as hard as a product grown responsibly. Just like everything over there they are just trying to make things as quickly as possible and make more money. in turn you get an inferior product. You get what you pay for.


Floorguy

I just got some armstrong engineered . Look at the box . FROM CHINA .
The sample went in the trash .

If the species of wood is N. American Red Oak ( Quercus rubra ), then it's dent resistance and natural characteristics would NOT be affected by the country of manufacture. IF the wood is truly N. American Red or White Oak, it's janka hardness rating is between 1200 and 1300 psi. I have found that narrow wheels and casters on heavy items will exert over this amount of pressure and dent the wood. Moving heavy items over plywood or masonite is wise and what I always do. But back to the actual flooring's characteristics. Some of the hardwood flooring made in China is made from imported lumber. China imports the raw lumber and manufactures it into wood products, including flooring. Some hardwood flooring from China is made from inexpensive local "hardwoods" that are stained and finished to appear to be something else. Sometimes, these are even called a species of wood they are not, like "oak" or "maple" or "rosewood" or "mahogany", but in reality are something else. A species of wood grown in China used for flooring sometimes is called Betula, a type of birch. There are many sub-species and this wood is not as hard as N. American Oak. Another is Hevea, or rubberwood.

What's the lesson in all this? As a buyer, one needs to be fully informed of what their are actually buying. Many species of woods with with vast differences of characteristics are used in flooring manufacturing. Just because the salesperson or manufacturer calls some flooring a generic name does not mean that particular flooring has the same attributes. One person buying the flooring needs to find out what the species of wood used actually is, especially if the flooring is imported.

Thanks for all the responses. So, how can I find out what my flooring is made of, and if I do find it is an inferior wood product would I have a chance going after Shaw? I read the warranty and it looked pretty worthless.

We had no idea you needed to research the flooring that throughly. We thought we were getting a quality wood flooring. The installer said he would replace the flooring that was damaged, but I don't understand how that is done. Even if it can be replaced there that doesn't solve the problem with the wood being too soft.

Thanks,
Amy

You could contact Shaw customer service. Tell them the type of product you purchased. They'll need specific info like style #'s, sku #'s, type #'s, etc. The retailer should help you with this. Then ask what the wood flooring is made of. Get any and all the info you can. There is no reason why Shaw should withhold any info on their products. Or, you could take a sample of it to your local college/university and ask their science dept to identify the wood species for you.

I looked on Shaw's website that lists the flooring they sell. They sell some 3/4" solid flooring. They have some listed as "oak", "red oak" and "white oak". Both "red oak" and "white oak" are references to N. American oaks used in flooring. If you bought one of the floors listed as red oak or white oak, and it turns out that the flooring you received is not made of either, then you would have a good case of fraud by a manufacturer. If you brought it to Shaw's attention that you are aware they are selling flooring fraudulently labeled, I'd bet they would replace your floor with another floor that was the species you actually wanted. If you bought the one floor just called "oak", then I'd have no idea which oak it is made from, as there are many species of oaks. And they do not all have the same characteristics. Or, it could even be a species the manufacturer just calls "oak" but it really isn't a true oak. This odd labeling is rampant in the flooring industry as imports and "exotic" hardwood is more common than ever before. For example, we have Brazilian Cherry ( which is not from a cherry tree at all ), Brazilian Walnut ( which isn't from walnut trees ), South American Teak ( no teak comes from South American. All true teak is from Indonesia ). It goes on and on with South African Mahagony, Bolivian Rosewood, etc, etc, etc. Manufacturers call exotic lumber species names the public will relate to. However, these wood species have nothing in common with the species their named after. It's just marketing.

But in your case, IF you did not get a North American Oak floor, then it should be replaced with a N. American oak floor because that is what you thought you were buying.

I think the bottom line here, in spite of possible misrepresentation, is that moving a heavy item like a piano, will damage ANY wood floor; from Pine to Ipe, unless proper preventative measures were taken.
I feel the damage should be repaired by the installer (and yes, Amy, it can be done with no visual evidence that it was).
However, if the product was represented to you as a North American floor, and or wood, then you might very well have recourse to Shaw for replacement.

It's good to hear that the damaged areas can be replaced. I have the information off one of my boxes. I will call Shaw to see if they can tell me what my floor was made of and also take a piece to our local college and see if they can help me.

My flooring info is: Shaw, 3/4 X2 1/4 Random Lengh Solid Micro Bevel Oak Strip; U6602-757; Red Oak Natural, 20 Year Warranty, Made in the USA 07/29/08.

I will let you know if I can find out what my floor is actually made of.

I really appreciate all of your expertise. If I ever need to purchase hardwood in the future, I will definetly do my research first. This is a really helpful website.

Thanks

As far as the dents in the Floor, the installer is responsible for Repairing the damaged boards.
You need to call him back and ask him to replace the damaged boards.
It's that simple.
Various Hardwood Flooring products are softer than others.
You should have checked the Hardness rating, so ensure that you were buying a Harder Product.

Seth

If the product was made here in the USA, then it is most likely as sold, a North American Red Oak floor. The store owner is uninformed by saying it is "soft". The probable fact is, the janka hardness rating of 1290 psi was exceeded, causing the flooring to be dented. The person who moved the piano and appliances is responsible, and in this case, that person is the installer. Replacement of the damaged boards should be done easily enough.

It doesn't take 1290 psi to dent the wood!! That is what it takes to get the little ball that far into the wood. It will dent with much less psi.

True, but as a matter of determining a uniform measurement of hardness, the Janka test is the best we have so far. PSI can be difficult to measure in practical life because of all the varying shapes and weights. A 110 woman wearing high heels exerts much more PSI than an elephant's foot. The elephant weighs much more but the weight is dispersed over a much greater area. And I've seen modern refers moved out onto wood floors without damage because they had the newer very wide nylon roller casters. But generally, the rule of thumb is to never slide or drag ANYTHING across a wood floor. Either place wood panels over the floor to protect it ( not carpet, lino, cardboard ) OR carry it. Another rule of thumb. Don't allow the wife to have friends over who wear high heels. Or have slippers available for guests.

I one time got a call from an irate client, saying something was eating her floor. Upon site inspection, I observed a series of random but patterned groupings of dents in the floor. We laid the whole main floor, but the dents were isolated in an area from the garge door, through one section of the kitchen and leading down a side hall to a closet. Outside the closet was a deacon's bench.
I opened the closet door, and inside was a boot rack full of golf shoes. Go figure.