Even though the store has paid their NWFA membership, it just means they get all the books, and helpful sale information, their subcontracted installers have never been to an NWFA training coarse.

This store is only using the NWFA as a marketing tool, and nothing else. It does not mean the actual guys on the floor, know what they are doing, unless they have taken the NWFA coarses and paid a lot of money for the training (under paid subcontract crews don't have the cash laying around to spend on classes!!!!! Most are starving, working from week to week on the edge of bankruptcy, on the dictated wages, these retail stores dictate.)







Is this basement, climate controlled?


I say go buy yourself a moisture meter, and then sell it on Ebay when your done with it.

Take the moisture meter and insert the pins into the flooring, ½ way. Document the reading. eg. 7.8%

Then push the pins in all the way and document the readings eg. 10.2%

Then pull the meter out and go get some 6d finish nails. Mark depth in ¼ inch increments on the nails to know your depth. Drive the nails down ¼ inch deeper the the pins would reach, using the pin holes made by the meter as your spots for the 2 nails. Touch your meter to the nails and take a reading. eg. 11.9%

Then drive the nails ¼ inch more and take a reading. eg. 13.8%

Keep going until you reach 1¼ inches and take readings. eg. 15.3%



I bet you find similar results as my eg.

Forgot to say...

Poke the flooring, with the grain, in the length. Not the width.

FloorGuy,

Thanks for your response. I agree with your position on the NWFA; means little to the guy performing the work, and businesses use it as a Marketing tool.. As did the Business that sold me Mullican and installation.

The basement is climate controlled, and no leaks. I am afraid that Mullican will turn thier backs on me, the installer (Downers Grove, Illinois), and distributer (Joliet, Illinois) pretty much have already... I am not sure if I should wait the 10 days for a response or contact the Illinois States Attorney? What do you think? What makes bad businesses respond?? I am trying to get hold of a digital camera, of course, then I will need a site to host the pictures.

Thanks, Steve

I just called Mullican for the first time! A lady answered the phone, and listened tentativley to the problem that I am having (Very nice)... She then called the a manager of technical sales, and he was a great listener.. He promised to follow up, and track down the problem, and return my call no later than next week. This guy seemed genuine, none of which did I feel about the distributor or Installer...

Does the basement have it's own HVAC system and it's own thermostat?

Or is the termostat in the 1st floor, and the basement gets it's climate control from the thermostat positioned up there?


I wonder what the temp & humidity levels are in the basement, compared to the 1st floor?

Floorguy,

The basement is climate controlled by the Thermostat on the first floor. The basement was tested, floor joists in serveral spots, but they were not as thorough as your procedure in your earlier message, (But I get the feeling not many are as thorough as you) They said;"readings are within a normal range" It's not clear to me what that range is.


One note to keep in mind, I live in a Townhouse, we have 4 units in this particular complex, all other homes have buliders grade hardwood floors (Bruce Flooring) and thier floors look great!

I hope you are feeling better after your operation, I can sympathize with you, I have had 5 operations of the same type you had, over the years, they get harder the older you get... Here is a story; The operation is normally day surgery, they put me in a room overnight, the next morning Nurse 'Hilda" came in and said; "time to get up, lets go!" I had been awake long before she entered the room, and during that time, I was trying to situp, well that was troubling enough! She kept after me, I felt like throwing her out the window, but with the condition I was in, she could have taken me without any trouble... I was out of commission for days, that was about 8 years ago.. Yet that is easier than Kidney Stones!

Over basement is important. What about heating units in the basement.
This does sound like an addition to the wood Moisture Content after installation. I'm wondering if there is felt under the wood, heating unit in basement, how dry the basement was upon moving into the home.
High moisture readings in the basement will affect the floor after installation.
SOunds like moisture and installation damage because the problem grew but was visible upon installation.

Hi Ray,

The basement was dry at the time of installation and still is, yes there is felt under the hardwood floor, the heat and humidity in Chicago this summer was very high, but I kept the air conditioning set between 74 - 78 degrees. Now if you look at the flloor on a particular angle you can see some cupping. (I will see if I can borrow a friend digital camera) I looked at hiring a independent inspector, but he wants $500.00 just to schedule an appointment
http://www.midwestinspections.com/, unfortunately I cannot afford to hire him, and I can't not afford to hire him... This whole issue is rediculous, I have been battling with the installer, the distributer for two months, now I have included Mullican, I would have included Mullican earlier, but the installer said;"we are in touch with Mullican".. I would like to retain a lawyer, then of courcse he will want to hire an independent inspectoe, etc.. $$$$ Of course like any other consumer, we spent our money buying the house and installing the floor!!

I called the technical manager from Mullican, he is the guy that makes the decisions about floor replacements, he said;" I will call you next week" no later than Wednesday.

In conclusion, The distributer has been here twice taking reading/measurements, all his answers were evrything is within range.

Thanks for your consideration

The inspection fees, if found not to be your fault, are the responsibility of the responsible party, along with rectifying your claims, whether that is you, the installer, the specifier, or the mill.

So if you really feel it is your own fault, drop it. If you feel it is something the contractors or mill is responsible for, then pursue it.

Most retailers, bet it will get dropped, before legal action is taken. Then once legal action is taken, they think they never have to pay the settlement, because most don't know how to go about collecting a judgement. Garnishment of assets and bank accounts, while putting a lien, that they can do NO business, until this matter is resolved and paid!!!

My fault??!! It's the Mills, and the Installers responsibility! As I said, if I had the funds I would be after them, most people don't have the funds! The best I can do is small cleaims court! However I will ask for Jury!

You going to need to find a wood inspector then. There is more then one in your area. If your not willing to spend the $500, maybe one of the less knowledgable will do it for less.

I simpathize with you here, its all pointing fingers at this point. I can tell you though if the installer continues installation after a problem has become apparent than they are responsible not you. You would be responsible if you told them dont worry about it and continue. sounds to me that they are playing the dont worry about it and hope it goes away game. Did you talk to Brian G. @mullican? First off a claim will have to be filled by the distributor of the product then sent to mullican then someone there should contact you. Has a formal written complaint been filed? NOthing much will happen until it has been done.

Hi Kevin,

It sure feels that way.. However Mullican has only been involved since Tuesday, July 30, 2005, both he distributor and Mulican Rep came out, the installer stayed home! I expectedc the installer to drive this issue, they have done little but extend the problem. The consumer has little recourse. I get lots of opinions, but they all cost money.... The additional money I had... Is in the floor!

Kevin,

I guess I need to be clearer.. I have been pushing the installer to do something for months, they did nothing, including returning phone calls, I kept after them, and finally the installer and the the distributor came out... At a later date the distributor came out again, both times performing moisture tests, and taking pictures, last week the Distributor and Mullican Rep came out, again taking pictures and moisture readings.. They tell me to be patient, I am hoping to have an answer by Friday.

Yes, be patient!! You get more bee's with honey, then you do vinegar.

But if Friday comes and goes, Monday press the issue a little harder.

Ask them just like this...
"Do I need to hire my own NWFA certified inspector, so I can know for myself, what is going on and who to point the finger at? Because I feel I'm getting the run around from everyone responsible"

If they say yes, in a condesending way, you know, they know you mean business. It will no longer be honey, but vinegar from that point on.


It will be time for that legal letter of intent, sent signature required, certified mail.