Hi,

My floor is an 11 month old Anderson Engineered Wood Floor w/ 3" planks. Since it was installed it has had "cupping" at the ends of the planks. I was told these would go down over time, but they seem to have gotten worse. See attached pictures.

The flooring rep and Anderson rep have inspected and are currently indicating that this cupping is within the tolerances of the floor and that the problem is my windows let so much light in that I can see small imperfections. This doesn't seem right to me. Everyone that walks into my home immediately ask what is wrong with my floor. And the same phenomenon can be seen in rooms with much less light than shown in the pictures.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jfmoore75/album?.dir=/5a07&.src=ph&.tok=phYziHDBaHxp2MvH

The moisture content of all the planks has been measured at 6% - 12%. An inspector for Anderson came out and measured that the slab moisture was too high but that hasn't been confirmed yet. Since the cupping has been present since day 1, I'm not convinced that the slab is the problem. I do know, however, that there are no plumbing leaks. Also, there is no moisture barrier between the floor and the slab.

So, I have two questions:

1) From the pictures, does it appear that I have a problem?

2) Can anyone recommend a good independent inspector in the Dallas area?

Thanks,

Josh

Yes you have a legit claim.

I can see it from my house here in Austin!!!


I travel! Dallas would be a travel fee involved.

I agree. The ends should not be lifting like that. Your best bet is to hire Perry (Floorguy). Perhaps he can advise you on how to proceed after that as he handles inspections and claims all the time.

The ends are peaking. Why?
1. Moisture
2. Milling.
Moisture comes from either the adhesive or the environment.
What the wood acclimated to "in-use" conditions.
Was the building under "air" two weeks prior to the installation?
Were all the "wet" trades completed prior to installation?
Do leftover planks slip together without one end lifting?

They may go down, but I doubt it.

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the feedback

>What the wood acclimated to "in-use" conditions.
Not in my house, no. But I can't tell you where it was before then.

>Was the building under "air" two weeks prior to the installation?
No, it was not climate controlled when the wood was installed. Also, it was raining for an entire week outside when wood was installed, so interior humidity was probably very high.

>Were all the "wet" trades completed prior to installation?
Yes, I believe so

>Do leftover planks slip together without one end lifting?
That is a fine question... I need to go try that...

Interestingly, there is one room in the house that does not show the ends lifting (the bedroom), all the others show it (living room, dining room, kitchen, family room, hallways).

The Anderson rep has now given an official report that says the 'peaks' are within tolerance for the floor and all is good.

Apparently they think there is too much light coming in my windows and that causes me to see the problems. I guess if there was no light at all it would look okay...

Thanks,

Josh

The home and material not acclimated?
There ya go!! That is the problem.
Wood is fine if given additional moisture a little at a time, but cannot handle rapid moisture gain without some problems.
This is not the fault of the installer or the manufacturer, but the fault of the building acclimation and material acclimation.
ONE MANUFACTURER states "acclimation not necessary"... If this is that manufacturer,,, keep after them for full replacement.
I think they do say the building must be acclimated prior to installation which would put the problem outside the warranty..
So, this is the responsibility of whomever scheduled the job... Is that you?

And by the way: After looking at the photos: that would not meet Industry standards for Milling (Manufacturing)... Are they saying that this would meet "INdustry Standards", Your Standards or thier standards?
Your first post stated: after installation this became visible.. which means this problem developed after original installation meaning the milling is fine and the problem lies someplace else.
Moisture gain.. rapid moisture gain...So,
Where did the Moisture Come From???

First you say this, Ray...




Then you hit the nail it right here, but what is causing the moisture gain...





I'm not calling acclimation on an engineered just yet, when there is a concrete floor, this is sitting on, but lack of acclimation is just an addition to the installation related claim.

I just read the replies more fully... This is a new house - everything was scheduled by the builder. My understanding is that it is the flooring installers responsibility to test the slab for moisture, take necessary steps for acclimation, etc.

If the building and climate control systems were not ready and the installation continued anyway, wouldn't it be the installer, not the builder's at fault. Isn't it the installer's job to know better?

Thanks,

Josh

Perry,
This is an installation related claim?
Tell me how you eliminated Milling?
You won't call this an acclimation problem, but are sure this is an installation problem?
You won't call "acclimation" on an engineered product? WHY NOT?
Do you believe Engineered wood does not need or require acclimation?
What about Building Acclimation?
Why is lack of building acclimation the responsibility of an installer when the County does not allow power to a home until it is completed and given Certificate of Occupancy? Why is that the responsibility of an installer.
Installers are mechanics following direction of either the builder or Retailer.................... BUt hell, let us always blame the installer for conditions he has no control over.

Hi Ray,

So, sorry for the confusion. I'm learning as I go along here. Whether it is the builder's, the installer's, or the manufacturer's fault, I was just checking to confirm that it was likely "not right" and that someone needed to fix it. I'll personally be going after the builder and I'll let them work out the rest with their contractor. The root cause concerns me in that if there is too much moisture in the slab then I need to know that. Past that, in my view, it is the builder's job to make it right, regardless of that involves (blaming installer, blaming manufacturer, filing a claim on their insurance, etc.).

Also, just FYI, in Dallas the power is turned on quite a while before closing and completion of the house. It's really up to the builder as they are footing the bill. In my house it was on at least 2 weeks before closing, but I don't think that climate control was being used up until very close to the closing date.

Thanks again,

Josh

That's my first guess. Water based ones will do that if there isn't enough "flash time" BUT, it's supposed to go down after time, right? If Anderson says it's okay I'm assuming their adhesive was used? Was there a water leak? Somebody wet mop in that area that you aren't aware of? Was it raning(open doors and windows) when that area was installed? Hard to tell in dark pictures. Give Perry a call.

That looks like it got flooded with agua. Hell, it looks like the ends are delaminating.

New homes often have the power turned off at night leaving the home to gain moisture.
This is the fault of the GC who built the home.. No matter who pays for it. I agree with the Owner of this home.. No matter what.. this ain't right...
The root cause is either moisture or milling....... moisture most likely... With the moisture coming from the home (lack of building acclimation).. New homes are wet, especially in the South..
Site conditions are the responsibility of the GC as he is the one who scheduled the flooring.... indicating the site was properly prepared and ready...

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Ken, there hasn't been any water damage to the top of the floor. We've had water damage by the back door (builder didn't seal it) and, as you know, it creates very visible marks on the top of the wood. The surface of the wood is all normal. So, there may have been water under it at one point and time, but never above... I suppose it could have been wet mopped by the builders cleaning crew prior to closing, but I can't imagine that one time leaving no visible damage and poofing up the end joints everywhere. Then again, I have no experience here...

ChuckCoffer, as I mention above, there has never been any water standing above the floor. And, the plumbing has been checked for leaks, there's no apparent water damage else where, and the glue is all in tact, so I don't think there is water below the floor either.

Interestingly, there are several water damaged planks spread throughout the house. It's clear the damage didn't occur after the installation as it's limited to exactly one plank and water would have spilled out and not cover a perfect rectangular area.

The ends aren't actually delaminating, I don't think, just "poofy" indicating the wood has grown. I saw this becasue we have 5 individual planks throughout the house that are delaminating in the middle of the plank and it's a very different appearance and effect.

So all of this (poofy ends since the first time I saw the floor, random pieces that are delaminating, random pieces with water damage since installation, etc.) indicate to me that the flooring was exposed to high moisture prior to or during installation.

Thanks again!

Josh