Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:42 pm 
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We built our home 10 years ago, and my wife and I installed 2000 sq. ft. of 3/4" x 2 1/4" Red Oak flooring. We stained the floor using a MinWax stain, a color called Puritan Pine. Then we applied three coats of a good polyurethane finish.

This finish held up very well for 8 years, until we were burglarized while out of town. The burglars turned off the power to the house, and the freezer portion of the refrigerator defrosted and all of the ice melted and pooled on the floor in front of the refrigerator. The pool of water sat on the floor for 4 days until we returned and found it.

The flooring was badly cupped in this area, and it was determined that we needed to replace the boards in that area and have the entire floor refinished. By the time we finished debating issues with the insurance company, half a year had gone by and the floor had apparently largely dried out and the boards had relaxed to a large degree.

The floor finishing contractor hired by the general contractor decided we did not need to replace the boards, that the floor would sand out and be OK. He drum sanded the entire floor, then disk sanded it with various grits and finally screened it. He applied the stain again, and three coats of a poly finish (satin).

This looked good for about a year, then we started to notice a discoloration in the center of the area the water had pooled at, a light graying of the finish. Over time this got worse, and I asked the general contractor to come out and look at it. They were quick to tell me what I was seeing was normal wear and tear, and pointed out that a similar discoloration was taking place about two feet away at the corner of the kitchen door leading into the foyer. They said they wanted to have a specialist look at it, and it was arranged.

I was pretty sure anyone they brought in would completely agree with them, and this was the case. Before the specialist came out, I called his office and asked how long the finish should last in a high traffic area, and was told a minimum of five years. The specialist disagreed with his staff and said that sometimes it is as little as two years, such as in our case. They used a moisture tester on the floor and found that the good areas showed a moisture level of 7, and the gray areas showed a reading of 6.

They left, telling me it is my problem.

After carefully looking at the area in question at the corner of the doorway, I found that I was unable to place my feet in that area as I walked around the corner, the discoloration goes to within about 3” of the corner of the doorway. There is no way in normal traffic that people would be walking that close to the corner.

My questions are:
1. For a floor finished as described, what should one reasonably expect for life of the finish?
2. Can moisture readings accurately be taken with a non-penetrating tester through the finish?
3. Is it possible that inadequate finish was applied?
4. Is it possible that the wood was not fully dried out when the floor was refinished?
5. Is there a way to measure the thickness of the finish, and if so, how and what should it be?
6. Is there any other explanations for out problems?

TIA.

BTW, I caught the burglars, took me two years.


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Amish made hardwood

 Post subject: Re: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:04 am
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Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
My questions are:
1. For a floor finished as described, what should one reasonably expect for life of the finish?

As much as 20 - 25 years in low traffic areas, As little as 2 - 3 years in high traffic areas. There are many variables in determining the longevity of a finish. Proper maintenance, lifestyle, protective mats, and many others all contribute to the lifespan of a finish. There is no way someone on the phone could determine any of these factors and come up with a definitive answer.

2. Can moisture readings accurately be taken with a non-penetrating tester through the finish?

Yes.

3. Is it possible that inadequate finish was applied?

Possible but unlikely. Three coats of poly, even cheap rental apartment quality should be adequate.

4. Is it possible that the wood was not fully dried out when the floor was refinished?

Even after 6 months of negotiating with your adjuster, there is still a good chance there was moisture trapped under the floor. Was there a drying period allowed for after the affected area was removed?

5. Is there a way to measure the thickness of the finish, and if so, how and what should it be?

There is but thickness of the finish is basically irrelevant to your problem.

6. Is there any other explanations for out problems?

I am curious about the secondary area you mentioned. Is it in line with the area infront of the fridge? If so, water left that long could have travelled under the floor following the grooves on the underside if the floor boards, and accumulated in that second area.
The grayness of the areas could indicate a moisture problem but an independent inspector should be brought in by you for a proper determination.



BTW, I caught the burglars, took me two years.

Glad to hear that. These jerks have no consideration for their victims and the ancillary damage they cause when robbing people.

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Dennis Coles
http://www.darmaga.com


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 Post subject: Re: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:54 am 
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Posts: 3509
Location: Austin
Wondering if the moisture left there, started a fungal growth?
You might be seeing decay, or the dreaded mold.

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 Post subject: Re: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:05 pm
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Gentlemen, Thanks for the comments.

"Was there a drying period allowed for after the affected area was removed?"

No drying period allowed, and the affected area was not removed, just sanded.

"I am curious about the secondary area you mentioned. Is it in line with the area infront of the fridge?"

No, it is perpendicular to the direction of the boards and about 2'-3' to the side.

"The grayness of the areas could indicate a moisture problem but an independent inspector should be brought in by you for a proper determination."

How do I locate a good independant inspector for flooring?

"Wondering if the moisture left there, started a fungal growth?"

I had not considered this possibility, how can this be determined?


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 Post subject: Re: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:40 am 
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I forgot to mention that in the area that the water had pooled, after the floor was refinished the flooring was tight. The finisher puttied any open joints between the boards.

Now there is a joint between two of the boards in the water damaged area that you put put your fingernail into.


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 Post subject: Re: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:05 am
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VMJ wrote:
We built our home 10 years ago, and my wife and I installed 2000 sq. ft. of 3/4" x 2 1/4" Red Oak flooring. We stained the floor using a MinWax stain, a color called Puritan Pine. Then we applied three coats of a good polyurethane finish.

This finish held up very well for 8 years, until we were burglarized while out of town. The burglars turned off the power to the house, and the freezer portion of the refrigerator defrosted and all of the ice melted and pooled on the floor in front of the refrigerator. The pool of water sat on the floor for 4 days until we returned and found it.

The flooring was badly cupped in this area, and it was determined that we needed to replace the boards in that area and have the entire floor refinished. By the time we finished debating issues with the insurance company, half a year had gone by and the floor had apparently largely dried out and the boards had relaxed to a large degree.

The floor finishing contractor hired by the general contractor decided we did not need to replace the boards, that the floor would sand out and be OK. He drum sanded the entire floor, then disk sanded it with various grits and finally screened it. He applied the stain again, and three coats of a poly finish (satin).

This looked good for about a year, then we started to notice a discoloration in the center of the area the water had pooled at, a light graying of the finish. Over time this got worse, and I asked the general contractor to come out and look at it. They were quick to tell me what I was seeing was normal wear and tear, and pointed out that a similar discoloration was taking place about two feet away at the corner of the kitchen door leading into the foyer. They said they wanted to have a specialist look at it, and it was arranged.

I was pretty sure anyone they brought in would completely agree with them, and this was the case. Before the specialist came out, I called his office and asked how long the finish should last in a high traffic area, and was told a minimum of five years. The specialist disagreed with his staff and said that sometimes it is as little as two years, such as in our case. They used a moisture tester on the floor and found that the good areas showed a moisture level of 7, and the gray areas showed a reading of 6.

They left, telling me it is my problem.

After carefully looking at the area in question at the corner of the doorway, I found that I was unable to place my feet in that area as I walked around the corner, the discoloration goes to within about 3” of the corner of the doorway. There is no way in normal traffic that people would be walking that close to the corner.

My questions are:
1. For a floor finished as described, what should one reasonably expect for life of the finish?
2. Can moisture readings accurately be taken with a non-penetrating tester through the finish?
3. Is it possible that inadequate finish was applied?
4. Is it possible that the wood was not fully dried out when the floor was refinished?
5. Is there a way to measure the thickness of the finish, and if so, how and what should it be?
6. Is there any other explanations for out problems?

TIA.

BTW, I caught the burglars, took me two years.


Have you tried to run your finger nail down the length of the floor?does the finish chip off? How soon after staining did they apply the first coat of polyurethane?


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 Post subject: Re: New Finish Worn Through?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:05 pm
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The finish does not chip off. If I get down close to the floor and look across the "worn" area, the light from a window shines exactly the same on that area as it does the surrounding area.

In other parts of the area that was wet, I am seeing black voids developing in the soft grain, though the hard grain still looks great.

I beleive the first coat of finish was applied one day after the stain was applied.


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