New member here and I appologize, my first post is going to be quite a post. I'll try to keep it as concise as possible though.

We had a new engineered bamboo floor put in our entire downstairs about nine months ago. This was replacing solid vertical bamboo which had to be replaced after a slowly leaking dishwasher ruined a portion of it. About a month or two after installation we noticed cupping and even some slight splitting/cracking of the boards throughout the entire home. We called the contractor and they contacted the installation and manufacturing company. After looking at the floor they concluded that it was due to some sort of shock to the floor that was out of their control and claimed they weren't responsible. I then hired an independant hardwood flooring inspector to take a look and his conclusion was the heating season caused the problems. Finally I called our insurance company to get their advice on what to do (another insurance claim maybe?). Basically, they are just repeating the process that I just went through. However, the insurance company offers a two year warranty on any work performed by a contractor that they recommend, so they are putting some effort in to get to the bottom of this. Nevertheless, I am at a loss of what to do and who the responsibility may fall on. There are several factors that may come into play here and I will try to list the more relevant ones.

First, we had a small portion of our previous flooring left in a closet which did not experience any cupping or splitting during the time that the new floor did. As I mentioned above though, the new flooring is engineered while the previous flooring was solid vertically laminated bamboo.

According to the contractor, the entire subfloor was adequately dried before the installation of the new flooring and I have no reason not to believe them. They also replaced areas of the floor that was damaged due to prolonged contact with water.

We did not receive any instructions or requirements for caring for the floor when it was installed. We took care of it in the same manner in which we took care of our previous floor which is sweeping and Swiftering. We did not take any special action to control our humidity level because we were not told we were required to.

The installers were concerned about how the floor was laying down on our subfloor, so they called the manufacturer and they ended up nailing as well as gluing the perimeter of the boards per the manufacturer's advice.

The humidity level may have gotten into the 20s at one point during the heating season, but it has been above 30 for as long as I have been keeping track of it lately and the flooring has not improved at all.

I am not necissarily saying that anyone is at fault, or that dry conditions did not cause the problem. I guess I am wondering where the responsibility lies when a problem like this creeps up so quickly after installation. My wife and I are both professionals and we always give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to any issues that may arrise as a result from our sevices. In other words, unless the damage was intentional or out of extreme neglect, we will step up if there is an issue within a reasonable timeframe after our services are provided - even if we are not at fault. I guess the only other exception would be if we offered plenty of warning of the potential of failure to the client and they elected to proceed. In any case, I am a bit put off that we had a brand new floor installed, it failed within two months, and the parties involved are basically saying "tough luck".

Seems to me there are a few issues here. First, the flooring wasn't replaced by a similar quality product. We are not floor experts and did not realize the difference between engineered and solid flooring. Now that I've had engineered flooring for almost a year, I have to say I am not impressed by it at all. Not only because of this issue but also because of the stability of it as well as the overall durability. Regardless, I don't think the quality of the new floor is near as good as our old flooring was. Second, as I stated above, we did not get any instructions on how to care for the floor. If the floor was going to fail because of potentially naturally occuring conditions maybe it would be nice to give us a heads up and some instruction on how to keep that from happening. Finally, it seems that if there was some sort of event to "shock" the floor so severely, it would have had at least had some effect on our old flooring that was not replaced. That floor is still fine though.

I guess I am hoping for some opinions on how this should be handled by us as well as the other parties involved. If you put yourself in our position, what would be your course of action?

Thanks for any advice,

Matt

Matt, first of all I want to present to you a fine article about bamboo article written by Dan Harrison. Possibly the best I have ever read about the product.

http://hardwoodfloorsmag.com/articles/a ... 4&zoneid=2

Now, after reading that perhaps you will understand there are many intricacies of bamboo manufacturing. Some manufacturers get it, and their products perform in all kinds of environments. I have installed some engineered and had it fall apart in months as well. But I told them in writing to get a humidifier. I have installed solids and had them go both ways as well. Basically, it is a crap shoot.

Just two days ago I walked into a 3 year old veritcal engineered long plank, stained, floated and not in any sort of humidified environment. It looked perfect, like the day I left. No one person here in the states can verify the quality of manufacturing in any one plant in China. There are better ones, ones who use the best bamboo and adhesives to adhere the plys together, then there are the wanton manufacturers who disregard quality for mass production.

It's only been slightly over a year or so where manufacturers of moisture meters and wood scientists have been able to pinpoint the true moisture content of bamboo.

Now, I would ask the manufacturer, inspector to specifically pin point this "shock to the floor" they say is the cause of the failure. And, if they didn't give you instructions on how to care for the floor, their limitations of the relative humidity in written literature then I would say they are at fault for not providing and selling a product that is compatable for your zone.

If you need any more assistance feel free to contact me. I have helped numerous people with this problem.

Oh, I believe there is a misconception about the name "solid bamboo" vs engineered. There is no bamboo floor thats completely made of one solid piece of bamboo like hardwood is. For one thing it does not grow thick enough to be milled solid. It is all glued together out of pieces. Albeit some are distinctive seperate layers.

Matt..


this is a long post and I get where you are at.

its tough to narrow down responsibility here.

but my gut goes towards manufacturer.

the cupping in the engineered floor is due to improper underlay materials in the "ply" manufacture.

I will not eliminate a wet subfloor issue either.

engineered floors, when manufactured well, are designed to take high increases in moisture and decreased..they are to be more stable..as a plywood would be.

you say you believe your contractor when he says subfloors were dry, but what were the readings?

what has happened is the Bamboo top payer has shrunk and dried at a quicker rate than the underlay materials.

it could be the subfloors were wet and released moisture to the flooring as it dried out..then this moisture made its way tot he floor and kept the underlay material 'wetter" while the top payer (bamboo) dried out..this will cause the floor to cup.

However, i believe if the proper underlayment materials are used in the ply process,this should not really occur.

this can be strictly manufacturer liability..(probably or should I say definitely made in China) bu not to say site conditions and improper preparations and moisture prevention and readings may not have occurred either.

my gut says you take issue with the maker..

I am sure your inspector took moisture readings and if the subfloors are accessible, he should have been able to take some readings underneath in the basement.

lastly..do you have radiant heat?

Late winter can be the trickiest time to install a floor correctly. At the end of the heating season that subfloor should have been dry even if it is over a crawl space. along comes spring with all the rain and bam the subfloor has a spike in m/c and now your floor is cupped. Cupped floors are due to an imbalance of moisture in the piece from top to bottom. the floor is wetter on the bottom therefore it expands more than the top and viola your floor has a cupped appearance. WHat were the inspectors readings and is this floor over an unconditioned crawl space?

Funny Steve..


when i made my reply there were none there and you go and sneak right in;)

I've been known to do that. We are all here to help, thats what counts!

Thanks for all of the replies and for the link to the informative article Stephen. I am hoping to hear back from our insurance company somewhat soon to see what their opinion is. Kevin, the install was actually late fall, just before the winter heating season. The readings that the inspector had were 40.1% relative humidity and 10-11% moisture content in the subfloor through non-invasive measurements. Crawlspace humidity was 66% and a moisture . The position of the parties involved is that the floor experienced uneven drying during the heating season resulting in the moisture imbalance. As you stated, the tops of the boards dried quicker than the bottoms of the boards resulting in cupping and cracking. Maybe this has to do with the construction and drying process at the factory, maybe it has to do with the installation method, maybe the environmental conditions were not optimal for a period of time during the heating season. If it was the third instance, I would accept responsibility had the installers or retailer provided instructions to us in terms of maintaining appropriate conditions. Or, more likely, I would have elected to go with a different product. As I said though, we just continued to care and maintain the floor as we had always done with our old floor because we weren't aware of the specific care and atmospheric requirements for this flooring. Also, if this would have happened a year or more after the installation rather than a couple months I would be less likely to be questioning their findings.

Anyway, thanks again for all of your comments. It is nice getting a different perspective than that from the parties involved who have nothing to gain from rectifying things. It helps me realize that I am not out of line for not simply rolling over and accepting their conclusions. I wish one of you lived in my area as you all seem to care about the consumer.

Matt