I need some unbias options, Say you had a couple guys doing work for you by the hour, and a job needed to be recoated, Touched up, Should the guys who did the work have to go back on their own time (after working a normal day) so after 5pm and fix the job. Or should the company that hired them chalk it up to one of the pitfalls of being in business.
If you have a couple of guys working for you, What would you do, If you don't, tell me your thoughts on the subject, Everyone please add something. I know you can't charge the customer, but again should it be the flooring company or their employees.
Thanks
Steve

In the business world, the business (company, corporation, whatever ) is held liable for the work performed by the employees of the company. This is a standard practice. Some managers and companies attempt to make their employees "pay" for their mistakes by making them correct them on their own time, but that is actually illegal according to many state and federal employment laws. Some companies skirt around the laws by classifying their employees as "sub-contractors" or salaried employees, which is different than hourly employees. But the law is clear. If a person is an hourly employee, they must be paid for every minute they perform work for their employer. Salaried employees are NOT paid by the hour but by the month or annually, so having to work overtime is typically NOT paid for. Now personally, for me, IF I had an employee that screwed up a floor, I'd be tempted to want to make them fix it on their time, but I probably would just go and do it myself to ensure it was done right this time and have the employee watch me so I could train them to do it better the next time.

Gary, As always great advise. Other member please feel free to leave commets.

the real issue here is the lack of oversight by the job manger. it does not matter if it is a sub contrctor or not.unless it was spelled out in a contact then the company has no recourse.As far as an employee goes there your problem.Any employer that would have an employee do any thing off the clock is looking for a lawsuit or a complaint

Salaried employees are salaried on a 40 hour work week, anything over 40 is considered overtime. They are really cracking down on this around here!!!

I remember the retailer I was subbing from, (I was employeed too) had some salary guys that had to be their at 7 am, and they sometimes would be slaving way past midnight, all for the same pay. He went through a lot of salaried young guns.

Yeah, I think there have been lots of lawsuits against corporations by groups of salaried employees who worked overtime (40+) but were not paid for it. Corporations traditionally took the position that the salary covered the overtime but most of the courts sided with the employees, that even for a salaried employee, a work week is the same as it is for hourly employees, 40 hours. And anything over that had to be paid for. But I still think in many corporations, salaried employees (management, personal secretaries, salesmen, accountants, etc.) are often not paid for putting in extra hours over 40. Of course, then the company opens itself up to a lawsuit.

My opinion would be if it was just a plain mistake then i would just take the hit on it. But, if it was evident that they were just being lazy and didn't fix something obvious then i would tell them to get back out there and it would be on theyre time. e.g. i had two guys doing a tile job a few months back, one of them calls me and says, "hey man, the sub-floor is particle board." So i tell him ok well it has to come out if they want tile, you cannot lay tile on particle board. So the customer agreed and they took it out and put in ply. I go out there the next day to check out the tile job and well, it wasn't particle board...it was OSB! The guy had been doing floors for 10 years and well, i don't know what his problem was that day. Guess what, he just worked two days for free. I can't afford to pay for his stupidity. If he was a new guy then i would have went out there and looked first, but this guy had been doing work for me for a long time. So, to me its all a situation type of thing with these matters.

Unfortunately ( or fortunately, depending on your position ), your opinion does not matter to the law. If you "force" an employee ( not a subcontractor, that's another matter ) to work on their own time, you could , and probably would be in violation of employment laws. You could face fines and penalties, plus possible civil action against you. It's not always about what is "right" or "fair", but often, what is legal. Some may argue that it isn't "right" for employers to have to pay for the mistakes of their employees. But if the employment laws were not in effect, then many employers would run rough shod over their employees like they did 100 yrs. ago. All an employer can do is either train their employees better, fire them ( that's still legal ), you can "lay them off" for a few days to teach them a lesson (cut their hours), or say, " Look, these mistakes are costing me money. So, you know that raise we were discussing? I cannot afford it now until your performance improves." Or take away benefits under the guise of cost control, etc. These are the things an employer can do. You just can't force an employee to work for free.

Thats one reason all of my people are sub's. Also its easier paper work wise for the all of us.

They are not your people, if they are subs. They are their own people. Employees, would be, your people and you would have some control over them. Hiring another company to do the work, you have absolutly no say in how the job gets done, as long as it gets done, and you are able to get a check. This is the address, and this is the wood, that is about all you have control over.

Actually they are "my people". They work along with me everyday. They like to get 1099's at the end of the year and this is also easier for me. They are paid on a daily basis as contract labor.

Yep, they are your employees!

This is what is wrong with this whole flooring industry! Right there in a nutshell.

Misclassification of employees, to cut cost and run an illegal business, by cheating the IRS, your states tax system, your states unemployment commission, and your states workmans compensation laws. that exploits its employees, by misclassifying them as subcontract labor, on the basis, they have no business education, what so ever. then labelling them a separate business, to skate around all the cost and liability involved with having employees, as you have.

All it will take is for one of your employees to file for unemployment, and you will be crying the blues, all the way to bankruptcy, and even jail time, as misclassification of employees, is a federal offense. Then you can get sued in civil court, for all your employee's expenses and self employment taxes.

Well i checked into to every aspect of the way i was going about the issue and eveything i am doing is a legit and legal way. Everyone pays theyre taxes and everyone has theyre own workmans comp and liscense. The last thing i want is to be doing something illegal. Thats why i went over everything with multiple people that gave me documents stating that i was going about everything legally and in the right manor. Never had a single problem since 1978.

In CA., even a licensed subcontractor could be considered an employee IF an employer/company/manager/salesman directs their work. Here, IF I tell a sub when they have to show up, how to install the floor, when the job must be done, how much they're getting paid, etc., then I would be directing them and I would be considered an employer and they, employees, according to the State of California. It may be different where you are. But I admit, MANY retail flooring operations work this way and get around the law. Typically, if the sub has his own contractor's license and his own liability insurance, uses his own tools and vehicle and gets himself to the job, many shops consider that person a subcontractor and pay flat labor rates and do not with hold taxes and such. Then 1099 that sub at year's end. If that sub only works for one shop, he also could be considered an employee as well. The State of California has a long list of items that could make a person an employee. And just having a contractor's license does not automatically make a person a subcontractor. However, you are probably safe from prosecution if any of "your guys" ever work for anyone else, even occasionally.

Click this link and take the test. It will let you know if they are employeed.


https://www.hrtools.com/etoolsapplets/i ... ttest3.asp