Can a regular nail gun shoot floor nails? Are floor nails called cleats? Do the two look different? How can I tell what my installer used?

What is the difference between the two performance wise?

Is there anything that these guys are doing that you are not questioning? Are you just getting a second opinion or you that distrusting of the guys you hired? there is a lifelong debate over cleats vs staples. Maybe now would be a good time to go back and read all the sticky's.

I'm asking about finish nails versus flooring cleats.

Why do you care why I'm asking?

What do you mean by regular nail gun? if it a 3/8 product then most likely they are stapling it which will be a hand held gun rather then one you hit with a mallet. You do seem to ask a lot of questions about every step, if you are that unhappy tell them to stop and explain or get rid of them and get someone who tells you what you want to hear.

I'm with you Kevin..

SL2, We're pretty much straight shooters around here. We're happy to help people. How can we answer your questions if we don't know why your asking? Most of us have been doing this for a lot of years, and we're letting you pick our brains...Maybe a little consideration/respect?

Actually I'm a little confused....The previous posts are asking about slab prep, and glue

not trying to offend you in any way but it sounds like you asked your installer and didnt trust his answers now your looking to prove him wrong via an internet message board. If you dont trust the skills and applications of the contractor get him off the job and hire someone you can trust to to the job correctly and not rip you off.

I don't understand the hostility. I asked what, a whole four questions? I'm looking for peace of mind that the floor of my house and what is going on here will be alright. And how is asking simple questions on hardwood install how-tos or best practices from the field a lack of respect or consideration? That's why people come here.

Honestly, after some of the things that have been done to this place by workmen over the years -- and you know that sort of thing is true -- darn right I'm worried and want to know what someone is doing or going to do to my house. Don't take it out on me. Go after the incompetents who make it hard for us all. Even dangerous. It's my house. No? Most people's biggest investment. And it's costing a bloody fortune. No small part of it labor charges at 50SF day. Mind my own business?

I know you don't understand the situation here but I do (some credit please) and, yes, if I hear they are going to do something that everyone else says not to, I want to at least approach them and try to catch it before it happens to my house. I do ask them about things. Just like I'm not supposed to, right? Workmen are supposed to be able to do whatever they want to your home, their own way, no questions asked, no permits, no preferences, no homeowners around. Why is that? I've never had a job like that.

They started off by saying the slab in another area looked pretty good and they could glue right over the old adhesive after knocking off the high spots. 'It should be alright.' Please stand up and admit that this would be alright if you think so. I'd love to hear about it and be reassured about the floor and their in-depth expertise by someone other than them.

Anyway, the floor had seemed alright the first few days but I heard some odd crackling clicky sounds last night underfoot in a few areas. I can't walk over the whole floor right now. When I looked it up here, this is what came up, by floorguy. I remembered seeing those pretty little nailheads.







crackling-after-new-birch-installation-t2353.html

There is no sun although there has been a shift in wealther/humidity but I'm not sure just when etc. Humidity has dropped 15 maybe 20 points recently. It's much colder now.

He used his nail gun (floor nailer/stapler was out) which he said seemed to work fine. I remember pretty little round nails in the TG when it was being laid. Face nailing towards the end of the install has more rectangular heads from what I recall earlier. I think something changed there. Online pictures show cleats having an L shaped head. The manufacturer's setting diagram does however look more like a finishing nail. Small head. But they refer to cleats. Are the terms used interchangeably?

So, now I've come across this possible/potential problem -- too late. I know nothing about the consequences. As a result of their guessing it would work just fine instead of knowing? They would say, it's just a nail. It will/should be okay.

The box says 18g finishing brads/nails. Why would someone use finishing nails to set a T&G floor? What's different about them other than they can be countersunk and filled?

Why should I have to mind my own business? It's my floor. I'm afraid.

I am hoping to hear that this method is okay. Don't worry about it. No problem. Done all the time. Good with those 3/8" floors. Cleats would tear them up.

What is wrong with that?????

Like I said before no disrespect but the number and style you questions are coming in are common to us here on the board. We cant sit here from the computer and tell if your floor is being installed correctly. All the questions you have asked if you had concerns should have been directed to the contractor who you are paying to do the work. If you dont trust him then there lies the real problem. Hire a reputable company, check references and insurance before you hire them. The guys who are good and know what they are doing should be easy to spot during an interview. There is not an install question that I cant answer with some degree of honest and knowledge. I actually tell people way too much info in most cases. Hiring someone to work on your house should be a pleasure its alot like a marriage, if there is no trust then neither one of you is going to be happy in the long run.

Finish nails are usually used when the flooring nailer / Stapler can't be used when you are too close to a wall. If they used 18g finishing nails to install your flooring, you will have a big problem down the road. The staples I used to install my flooring were 15-1/2g. If I understood you right, the contractor you hired didn't have the right tools to install your flooring.

If you don't have a written contract with your installer specifying that the hardwood installation should conform to some kind of flooring standard you are SOL.

What type of problems down the road? How long does it take?

I don't actually know what they used for the TG. It didn't have an L shaped head. What he did say was that he was going to use his own gun after the stapler failed and that it seemed to work fine. I just found this box of nails the other day but maybe they were for the face nailing and this is just a misunderstanding. Thing is, I showed both of them a strip and they said yes they looked like the 1-1/4" nails they used. They have a pneumatic nailer and did test boards checking the psi, so I guess that's a good sign.

Who would use a finish nail to lay a TG floor if a cleat/staple was specified? That doesn't make any sense. It just sounds flimsy and bizarre to me but I don't know nails. They say they've laid lots of hardwood floors in the field, trying to reassure me that they know what they're doing around here.

I actually can find out by checking what was purchased on account. At least I'll know one way or another. This is a delicate personal relationship we're dealing with here. I will be very angry if they did something like this because I stressed to them repeatedly that I wanted to follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. I keep telling them I like to follow directions. No risks. The instructions specify 1-1/4 staples/cleats. Nothing about gauge. The drawing that shows right/wrong settings into the tongue looks like a finish nail actually, not an L shaped cleat.

The manufacturer states that some minor occasional noises are inherent with fasteners and normal with environmental changes. I like old creaks but the weird crackling, popping noises I heard today at a showroom and a little bit here now are unnatural and unpleasant, imo.

Please, what happens and how long does it take to know something is wrong? I'm not good at waiting to find out and very good at worrying. Possibly things are usually alright?

-----------------------------
eHow isn't high on my credibility list but it does have an article on using a finish nailer for TG.

Finish Nailer
Not everyone keeps a flooring nailer around because it has only one use. If you're handy with a finish nail gun, you can use it to install a hardwood floor. A finish nail gun, designed for trim work, shoots a near-headless nail that does not mar the surface look of the wood, which makes a finish nailer effective for installing hardwood floors as well. To use this nailer, position the nail shoe on the wood tongue at about a 15-degree angle downward and inward, toward the plank. Depress the nail shoe while holding the nailer carefully in place, and pull the trigger. Use finish nails that are long enough to go through the subfloor, if there is one, and at least 1/2 inch into the floor joists.

I see the gun is key, which is what my original simple question was. It was his own regular nail gun he resorted to. Those can't shoot a cleat. I guess that answers it. Those guns are finish nailers. And finish nails are not designed to grab a subfloor to hold that floor down.

Totally irresponsible. How many times did I tell them to follow the manufacturer's instructions.

eHow

Cleat Nail or Staple?
The type of fastener you use depends on the type of gun you have. Both types of fasteners, cleat nails and staples, are manufactured to hold the hardwood floor securely to the subfloor. Cleat nails have a barbed tip that helps hold the nail securely in the subfloor. Staple ends are coated with resin which heats up when forced through the hardwood and subfloor and acts as an adhesive.

Some staples are manufactured with ringlike shanks to provide even more grab of the subfloor. Cleat nails allow for the expansion and contraction that hardwood floors require. A key consideration is the location of the property. A location prone to high moisture levels would be best served using cleat nails to allow for more frequent expansion and contraction.

Ehow?

I hate that site with a passion because 95% of the material is what they call spun content. In other words, they steal from other sites but reword it different. The subject of nails or staples looks all too familiar...stolen from yours truly. Most of the authors have absolutely no knowledge of the subject matter.

"Some staples are manufactured with ringlike shanks to provide even more grab of the subfloor"

Never seen those. Probably just made up fluff.

To your question.



Squeaky floors, probably when there's lack of moisture or when humidity levels are lower for an extended period of time. How long of time? Every situation will be different.

I realize they are a trash site with dumb instructions and little credibility. That just happened to come up with the type of info I was looking for (and it was verry late). Sourced from somewhere but who knows where.

I think humidity in here is generally higher than it should be. 70-75 in summer I was seeing. 48 now. I think it was somewhere in the middle when the floor was laid, around 60. It had been but it took over a week for them to finish.

Is it ridiculous to lay a floor with a finishing nail or is a nail pretty much a nail? It's not the nail versus staple debate, as far as I know. These were not cleat nails. They were finishing nails.

I made a big deal about squeaks insisting they screw all subfloor 5/8" paneling down. They used (coarse) drywall screws there as I learned later. They said it's just a screw, a screw is a screw. So now I learn the fasteners used on the floor itself will be prone to squeaks because they fudged?

They wonder why I watch and research as it is, reassuring they build from the ground up commercially which is stricter than residential. I should have watched their every move like a hawk. This is why. Seems one can never do enough. I tried. Per manufacturer's instructions. They do what they want anyway.

I'm really upset if they didn't follow the documentation as I downright insisted. Will check the purchasing history. Hopefully that will show cleats were used for the TG. But I believe the gun thing nixes that hope.

SLT, I know construction types that use 18 ga finish nails to do engineered all the time, or use an 18 ga narrow crown stapler with the end filed down to hit the sweet spot. They never have had issues, least thats what they say.

Thank you! There has to be a reason they thought this was alright. They say they know what they're doing.

I hope these little crackles and popcorn pops I hear a bit of sometimes would be happening anyway as normally with the humidity changes. Just this cheap thin stuff.

Wow that showroom floor crackling was awful. Who would buy a house with that going on. It would drive me nuts.