SL2,

It really doesn't matter what they use (flooring cleats or flooring staples). These staples/ cleats were designed for installing 3/4 hardwood flooring. But using 18g finish nails will not guarantee a solid installation.

Next time make sure to have something in writing. While a certification doesn't mean much. There is a lot of installers members of flooring associations. Look for them next time, they usually follow guidelines of NWFA,...

NWFA will even supply you with the names of certified professionals in your area.

http://www.nwfacp.org/findCp.aspx
.

It is also important that the correct fasteners are secured at the correct angle. Typically "flooring guns" are manufactured to shoot at this angle consistantly.

I'm just wondering how long it takes to install a floor using a finish nailer.... My powernailer is on rollers.... pop pop ppppppoooooppppp ppppoooppppp ppppoooop. When im finishing a floor and pulling it tight, even if im hitting a joist and face nailing, it doesnt always hold 100%. Never heard of using finish for anything other than.....finishing.

Smooth, Sounds like your nailers misfiring

Flooringinstall, I'm not sure what you're saying. They are a heavy duty design for the old floors but you're not so sure about using an 18g for the 3/8ers ... you can do it but it's iffy you'll get that solid install? Are you questioning the gauge used or finishing nails period?

I shudder at finish nails being used instead of a flooring fastener. That just does not make sense to me but I don't know nails. Maybe times have changed with the new thin wood floors. I am glad to hear that it is done in the field. I guess that's why they thought it was alright -- if they see guys doing it or are spec'd to use them on a job site. A lot of commercial jobs get ripped out and redone frequently though. Not intended as a 30 year floor or a residence.

I went to the store to see what the cleats look like. Documentation said minimum 1" staple/cleat for the 3/8 floor. Looking at their smallest cleat, 1-1/2", no way could my floor handle something like that. Maybe the 1" is much more delicate? 1-1/2 to 2 didn't look that different. The guy at the Depot said for 3/8 they use staples and it could not handle a cleat. He didn't worry about 18g finish nails at all but, then, HD is a good source for bad information so who knows where he's coming from. I see that the nail gun determines the gauge used so maybe that's why he went with the 18g because it's what he had.

All that comes up in purchase history is the finish nails/brads.

I will be calling the manufacturer to see if that nail type is alright for this floor or if its use would actually void the warranty.


(When I said my floor was 'just this thin cheap stuff' it's very nice flooring and seems good quality, just not a good solid old fashioned floor. I'm not a fan of the new stuff or AO finishes really but the other wasn't doable.)

Exactly. Why play engineer and risk an install by not using the appropriate tools & materials. They should have pursued the stapler I guess. Cleats don't look doable with this 3/8. We tried to buy when the rentals didn't work out but stores didn't seem to carry the floor guns. I think the schedule became more important than the work. Dumb, dumb, dumb. That never works. Not their call.

Maybe the finish nailer is why they were only getting 50SF a day done? (5hr days). And had to use some face nails in the field. They're paid by the hour. Not their call to waste so much of our money on labor charges by creating such a time consuming install, a substandard one at that. They did say the gluing would be even slower, however.

I'm terribly worried about it all with what I've read. The fastener, not getting the punch of the nailer to lock it down tight to the sub as it goes in, or the correct angle. Just sounds foolish to me. They didn't worry about prep either. I don't think he understood flatness and didn't know what tolerance meant over a 6' span when i asked. Flatness should have been addressed too I think. Said guys put more felt paper underneath but I know they didn't do anything like that.

I obviously did not get a very professional install but we have certainly paid through the nose for it. I could have had a perfect floor by a great master for all the hours they have charged.

I love the floor and just want it to last and not make a bunch of unpleasant noises or whatever else. I made such a big deal about making sure that subfloor was screwed down really well. Unbelievable. They did pay good attention to the boards and blending and they seem tight at the joints.

So the furniture was put back into these rooms but they have not filled the face nails. That makes no sense to me to not fill as you go. I just don't understand all this and want it over with and everything to be alright.

Most of your general construction types don't understand the design of the fastener. They think as long as it is the same guage the man suggests it is ok. Staples and cleats are designed to pull down the floor tight. A straight nail cannot do that very effectively.

Face nailing is different and should only be done along start and stop rows unless you is doing some barn wood or something with no T&G.

You're right Tuscon, I ran into that with them when we started this floor. They were screwing some squeaky spots on the subfloor. I asked for it all to be re-secured. Why only screw down the current squeaks? Honestly. I was very upset when I found out they used drywall screws. Coarse ones, better and acceptable to some, but nevertheless. Drywall screws? A screw is a screw he said. It's just a screw. They seem to use them for everything.

This kills me. I'm so afraid of getting some weird sounding floor years out. And I wonder if this is the (very slight) sponginess I commented on as they were putting it down. Isn't gripping the floor tightly. I've pushed down with my toe or thumb and sometimes you can get movement. The squish factor. They also don't prep really in terms of flatness. Waste of time, I think. "It is what it is."

Yes, I see now that they are construction types and not into the technical or finer details of things. They seem to use the T&G aspect as a crutch to handle any issues. But I've walked on hollows, dips, slopes, crackles with these types of floors and it is a little odd. Not a professional job. I wouldn't buy a house like that.

I hope they kept up the nailing schedule. It was 3 or 4 inches per the instructions when I looked early on.

Say a little prayer if you will. My family needs for all this to be over.

Thanks for all your help!

Tuscon, do you know why construction types would install with 18g finishing nails? Why? Why not just use flooring fasteners? Why buck the flooring industry? Who takes risks like that with someone else's house? It's so irresponsible.

So, I called the manufacturer to see if it was alright to use finish nails in the TG to install this 3/8" floor. Knew it wasn't, of course, dumb question, but wanted to hear what they had to say. Their installer says "oh no, that's a big no no. You will have big problems." He said maybe it seems solid now but those straight nails will not hold a floor down. Maybe a year out you will start to hear crackling and squeaks. He said it's a good thing I had the whole subfloor screwed down because deflection will cause this. (Thank goodness I was able to get that done. It was done reluctantly. Now I wish I'd gone every 6" inches instead of 12" to compromise on something he didn't think was necessary. Then I find out they were using drywall screws of all things (coarse).

I imagine expansion and contraction over time loosens the nails up for squeaks too. No?

Someone joked about how slow it would be using a pneumatic nail gun. Could that by why they could only get 50SF a day down? They have laid floors before and said it was due to the 2-1/4" boards.

I just cannot believe they did this after I made such a point of stressing that they follow the manufacturer's instructions. So ironic that the guy who declared his nail gun was working fine and to use that had said before the install, "who do you get for $2 SF?"

Time will tell. It's not getting much walking because everything is torn apart and piled around still.

I can tell you why they used a finish nailer instead of a floor gun because it would cost them some more money to have to go and buy a floor nailer. I wouldnt stress about it now seems like split milk at this point. If the guys you hired dont even have the basic proper equipment to install a 3/8 floor then they not going to be around for you when you have a problem. I can guarantee you that all you are getting is a tail light warranty.

Fifty sf isn't much for one day even using 2 1/4, and two guys did you say? Must be drinkin beers lol

Now if they used a proper ga and width stapler that was not strictly made for wood flooring then that would be a different story. That would be faster IMO than those dang trigger pull ones made to engage the sweet spot on the T&G. With just a 18ga finish nailer I would be awesomely fast. haha

Wow this thread is the reason why since I'm going to be doing my subfloors and new hardwood floors myself to gather as much information as possible to do mine right,sorry to see you having problems with yours,S2.