We have had 3/4 oak flooring installed in the first floor of our 1750's house in Massachusetts, after an extensive renovation. Many of the floor joists and all of the subflooring was replaced. There is a small basement under part of the house, but most of the floor is over crawl space. A poly film vapor barrier was installed over the dirt in the crawl space.

Flooring was delivered in December and stored in the house until installation. The hardwood was installed in 2 phases. The first 2 rooms were completed in January. Moisture readings at that time were favorable. In June, we sstarted to notice small raised cracks in many of the boards and slight cupping.

Installers came in July to complete the installation of 5 more rooms. We pointed out the cracks in the first 2 rooms at that time and were told that they would address it. No additional moisture readings were taken at that time. The installers worked on the installation, completing 2 rooms and beginning two others (3 of the 5 rooms are part of an open floor plan). We noticed the following:

* Big difference in color of flooring starting in the middle of the kitchen and dining rooms. It turns out that they measured incorrectly, so had brought additional flooring from their showroom. The colors were not the same.

* Cracks in the flooring just installed.

* Cupping in the floor boards across the whole job.

We agreed to stop additional work and the installer contacted the flooring vendor (Sommerset floor) to come to review the situation.

Current status:

* The installers want additional $s to cover the cost of the flooring, and its installation, which they mismeasured. They also want additional money to bring the job current for the installation work they have done so far. (We paid for the flooring when it was delivered and we paid for the first part of the installation when it was completed. Based on our original agreement, we owe them about $3500 + they want around $1600 for the additon 200 sq feet they underestimated.)

* The installers agreed to work with us on the color, once more flooring arrives. We don't know if this will mean that they get more to match the existing, or have to rip up a whole bunch and mix it in.

* The manufucturing rep says that the cracks are "checks" and both the checks and the cupping are a result of moisture in the crawl space.

Here are the questions I could use help with:

1. Should the installers have taken moisture readings before installing the 2nd phase? Especially after we pointed out the problems in the first phase of the job?

2. Since they didn't do this, should they be responsible for any issues with the flooring for that part of the job?

3. Do cupping and checking usually show up that quickly after the installation? Is it possible that there are other causes?

4. Assuming that moisture is the issue, what is the best way to address the moisture issues in the basement and crawlspace?

5. If it's possible to correct the the moisture issues, will the floor flatten out?

6. Is this a product that we should ever have installed?

7. Should we be resonsible for paying for additional flooring and installation that they mismeasured?

8. Is it appropriate to refuse any additional payments until we resolve the question of responsibility and how the issues will be addressed?

Sorry to have so many questions, be we've already shelled out $9K for this job and feel like we're getting taken! I appreciate any advice you can provide!

Hi,
I am not a professional but wanted to say sorry that you are having problems. It's no fun, I am going through them too. ( different from yours.)

I would like to give my opinion on question #7...............I do not feel like you should pay them for their mistake. That happened to me with carpeting upstairs. We were given a quote and 2 weeks later I went in to pay. It was $1,200 more on the contract. I asked about it and apparantly the wife (small business owned) forgot to 'tell' me that it was miscalculated. Of course the husband got mad for her not telling me about it. I wasn't happy about it , so I ended up leaving. They called me after I got home and told me since it was their mistake they wouldn't charge me for it.

It just didn't feel right..........it was like, "Oh, by the way, it's $1,200 more. Sorry, we miscalculated." What the heck?!

This happened to my friend too ( different company), so sometimes I wonder if some companies truely miscalculate or try to get more money. You just never know unless you know the exact sq footage of your house.. ( which by the way, didn't match up with his 'extra' $1,200 )

Installers here may not agree with me or what happened in my situation, but as a customer that is the way I feel.

1) Yes. Moisture readings and humidity readings need to be taken, especially if there has been indications of excessive moisture.
2) Professional installers are responsible for accepting the job site conditions. If they install the flooring, that means the job site is acceptable to do so. However, they cannot be held responsible for conditions that occur after the installation.
3) Yes. But it may be the flooring was also improperly acclimated. Since you were having the home rebuilt/remodeled, many products contain a lot of moisture that effect interior humidity. I suspect interior temp and humidity were not controlled to normal levels when the flooring was delivered.
4) This has to be done on a per job basis. The cause of the moisture must be determined first. Where is it coming from?
5) Sometimes, slightly cupped floors will flatten out once the source of moisture has been removed if done soon after exposure. If the floors remain cupped for a long period of time, often times, they develope a "set" and remain cupped.
6) Solid wood is more susceptable to environmental conditions but it is installed the world over successfully every day. I suspect the job site conditions were not ideal but could have been made better perhaps.
7) This is a matter of opinion but this is my take on it. For example: let's say you have a job that requires 1000 ft of flooring, total. A contractor measures it and neglects to include a small area and says you need 950 ft of flooring. So you get 950 ft and near the end of the installation, the contractor realizes that he doesn't have enough flooring and says you need another 50 ft. Well, shame on that contractor for his mistake in measuring but it does happen. But he shouldn't be punished for it. The owner knew in the beginning they needed 1000 ft and expected to pay for 1000 ft. Had the contractor measured correctly, the owner would have had to pay for 1000 ft. So, it is not really costing the owner more than what he should have paid in the beginning. If the contractor delibrately kept the cost down to get the job, then raised it after the fact, then that would be fraud. But it would be difficult to prove. Others may disagree but my opinion is the customer should not profit from a contractor's mistake.
8. All work should stop and all payments put on hold until an agreement is reached over existing work, issues and responsibilities. This is best when done informally between the contractor and customer. Sometimes, a third party mediator/negotiator may be useful. But going the full legal route with attorneys should only be a last resort as it will cost the most and take the longest to resolve.

Gary, thanks for the responses. A couple of addtional thoughts:




I have to tell you, I was pretty surprised that they delivered the product all at once, given all the work we still had to complete. The flooring was stored inside the house during reconstruction. During this period, we WERE living in the house, so the house was heated, but there were a lot of things going on, and new materials being introduced to the house. However, we really finished all the construction work in May, several weeks before they began the second phase of the install. Do you think this still have been a contribuing factor? Also, shouldn't the installer have measured the moisture content of the flooring before they started the second phase?




Do you have any advice on where to find a qualified person to assess this? There isn't standing water, leaking roofs, or anything like that.




I know thisis a picky question, but very important: how much time do we have to correct the source of the moisture?




Agreed. It's not our attention to escalate this any more than necessary to reach a solution.

Thanks again for your input.

I would contact Howard Brickman. He is a wood flooring failure investigator. He is actually one of the top dogs in wood flooring and wood science.

He is near Boston, I believe. Where ever Norwell is.


http://www.brickmanconsulting.com/wood_ ... lting.html

You do need to hire a Certified inspector.

www.nwfacp.org
or
www.NOFMA.org

Howard Brickman, is a NOFMA & NWFA certified inspector. He actually is an instructor who gives the inspector testing.

sommerset?

well

Firsto off the moisture should be checked before the installation, not in january, and then when phase two starts 6 months later just assume its the same.
Installer is liable for that, if phase 2 cups soon. Phase one installation I dont feel they are liabile, if the moisture checked out, and the wood acclimated. The cupping could be a result after the fact.

The color isuue... It shouldnt have been installed, the installer should have noticed it. Most likely they did, and called the company to inform them. WHo most likely told them go ahead keep going. SO that issue I am going to have to blame the company, Probobally was a larger company, and subs doing what they are told, only to get screwed in the end.

The mis measure, I have to side with gary, most homeonwers know "about" how big thier homes/areas are (Ive had customers argue that my measure ments were 2 square feet bigger than thiers LOL) But errors happen all the time, contractor shouldnt be liable for that. I know that sucks for you though.

And stop all payments until a resolution.

Howard knows his business, for sure.

Thanks to all who responded. I did contact Howard Brickman and he provided some very helpful information. We're going to go back to the installers with this additional information. I'm hoping not to have to escalate to legal action and all that -- it's not really my style.

In the meantime, we're going to get some an estimate from a crawlspace contractor, recommended by Howard. I'm hoping that we'll be able to remove the source of the moisture.

Thanks again for all your various suggestions.