I am planning a DIY glue-down engineered on concrete slab in Arizona. Specifically I will be using Robbins Passeggiata with Armstrong ProConnect adhesive. I have learned from this forum that I do not need to use "T" moldings where my wood will meet tile. Thus I plan run a board tight against the tile (grove facing the tile, tongue facing the wood floor), then fit the groved ends of my floor boards into the board which abuts the tile. In essence this "transition" board will run perpandicular to my floor. Other threads on this forum make this scenario sound relatively safe from problems relating to expansion/contraction. I believe that this is due to a reduced amount of expansion/contraction with both end grain and engineered product. Is this correct and should I proceed as planned?

If this is true, can I do the same against a sliding glass door? I have one 6' and one 8' sliding door which are parallel to how the floor boards will lay. Can I but my boards tight against the sliding door frame also?

Both of these scenarios seem to contradict everything I have read about the need to leave adequate expansion space (1/4" to 3/8") around every fixed object.

I would like the cleaner look but do not want to invite future problems. Thanks

Engineereds are a much different animal then a solid, when shrink & swell are concerned.

If the floor is acclimated properly I have no problem butting an engineered. Although I don't butt it as tight as I can get it. I'll use an old credit card as a spacer which leaves it tight enough.

John:

We did this job for a Fine Homebuilding Magazine article and butted all the slider areas. Must have been 60 lineal feet total. Just make sure you have enough adhesive near the butted areas.



That can get confusing. I don't think you'll find any manufacturer specs that mention anything about butting. Reasons could include some guys will get into the habit of butting everything including floating and solid hardwood floors that need the necessary expansion area.

Mannington and Bruce, both mention being able to butt to objects, in their engineered instructions. The only time expansion space is mentioned, it is Manningtons floating option. You can't float a Bruce, except their Woodlands collection.

I'm not getting that.

I agree you can use a header board against the tile and run the flooring perpendicular off of that. But i don't quite agree with butting up against those sliding patio doors if the floor is ran parallel to them.

Even on engineered, I have always left a gap and covered it when I meet exterior doors.

Jerry, you do realise an engineered, even though it doesn't move much at all, will swell more in the lengths, then the width. Notice all the finger board construction as core in engineereds these days? There is a reason for that.

Ever notice how a wet engineered doesn't cup, but the end joints peak up.

I am still unclear on one point. Is it ok to butt the boards at the ends as as well as length wise provided I leave the "credit card"sized space? Also should I leave a space where the ends meet the header and where the header meets the tile/slider? Or just leave 1 space where the header meets the tile/slider? Thanks.

JohnP, i am just overly cautious I reckon. I have only done 4 glue-down engineered jobs to date. Where i live its all mainly houses with basements so most of it is a solid type flooring that I install.

I defer to Perry's advice because of his experience on gluing down an engineered.

When I install against tile I will leave a small gap between the header board and the tile and fill that with a color matched grout caulk. Then run the flooring butted to the header, but I always leave a little room at the opposite end for expansion.

At patio doors I still leave a gap and rip down a mini reducer to about 1/2" to 3/4" in width and use that to cover up the gap. You could use a caulk instead but the cuts would have to be cleaner that way.

Are the patio doors on the same wall or opposite from each other? That would make a difference in my mind.

Well, these guys have been saying lately(Ray & Perry) some engineered hardwoods today move lengthwise. I haven't handled an installation since June of '04 so maybe there is some validity? Prior to that I would often try to net fit engineered gluedowns against ceramic tile, stone, and other areas if they were straight cut. Gluedowns accounted for 2/3 of all the jobs I did, and the count is well..large.

Some jobs would specify it. Do it any other way and take a hike. Take a look at many hardwood floors in commercial settings such as your favorite mall. Everything is butted including solids. Use a transition piece and it's an easy recipe for getting sued. Here are a few pics of the Sawgrass Mall in Ft. Lauderdale. 110,000 square feet solid 3/4" all butted. You would think the floor would explode.

I'd also leave an 1/8" between tile and wood and fill the gap with sanded caulk to match the grout.

Don