I had 4" maple hardwoods installed in June (very humid month here in KY) in my new construction. The installer did not follow manufacturer's instructions as he did not use a moisture retarder between the floor and the subfloor (wood laid right on top of subfloor) nor did he do any moisture testing. Now we have terribly cupped floors. They are blaming the conditions in the crawl space (too humid, etc.). WE have put a dehumidifier under there and the RH is about 70% and has been for about 4 weeks. There was probably residual water under the house since there were no gutters or downspouts for the duration of the construction...they were installed about a week prior to installation. Despite the improvement in the RH in the crawlspace, the floors remain cupped. Moist crawl space or not, it looks like the installer should have raised some red flags before we spend 10 grand on a new floor that now looks awful.

My question: Since the manufacturer instructions were not followed, is the installer responsible for taking the floors back up and re-installing according to guidelines? Shouldn't he have noticed that it was too moist before the floors were even installed or ordered? How do most situations like this go down? Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

Was there a general contractor involved? Installer/flooring contractors should always check crawl spaces but maybe it was fine when he installed it. Lots of issues like you mentioned ie gutters and grading, protecting the frame work from moisture below in the dirt etc etc.

No, we subcontracted the flooring. It was very likely damp under the house at the time. We have had drought conditions since the installation, so the moisture under the house is definitely nothing new. He admittedly did not check the crawl space. He said it was not his job to check the crawl space area.

Looks like thats going to be a fight between him and you, your the general contractor but he is supposed to be the pro hardwood guy. Who is the most professional of the two?



That make no sense what so ever. Try again.

What do you mean that makes no sense? If we've had no rain since installation, the damp conditions couldn't have just appeared out of nowhere unless there was a leak or something and that has been ruled out. What I'm saying is that I think the hardwood installer should have known about those conditions at the time of install. It's not a swamp under there, just some humidity and perhaps moist ground leftover from construction. The key here in my opinion is no vapor retarder.

Like I said, your contracting out subs on your rebuild, so your the general contractor. You should know how to protect your subfloor. Why didn't you check it? Maybe the installer did check it or was taking your word that the jobsite was ready. How do you know the space below wasn't dry then?

Lots of guys do not use a vapor retarder between the wood and underlayment. What do you consider to be a vapor retarder?

You don't have to have rain for conditions to change in a crawl space or basement.



Now you want to play the blame game on the installer. boo hoo



Who's fault is that?
NO rain???? Make up your mind.

We'll see what the certified NWFA says. I didn't ask for smart-ass remarks, just advice. The NWFA clearly states that the installer assumes that the job site is ready before the floors should even be delivered. I would also at least have expected the installer to follow manufacturer's instruction on the installation. Lots of installers may not use a vapor retarder but if the installation calls for it and if it is NWFA protocol, I would certainly expect them to. You can offer constructive advice but you don't have to be an ass about it.

Ok so you weren't really playing GC. Yo can say what you want about the floo rnow, but is there any documentation on the conditions at time of installation?

You come here laying blame on the installer...like most people do...but many home owners never want to take responsibility for the consitions of the house after the fact.

I don't necessarily think the contractor is responsible for re doing all of the work for free. Since the laws of this land are poorly written, I go by what actual professionals would normally do.Lawyers , Insurance Agents and politicians rank slightly above drug dealers to me.I find them all to be mostly unreliable.

In my case, I would talk to you about how i feel the wood should be installed.And then after we agreed on the installation method, I would write it out in my contract. And I would have talked you out of maple as it is one of the most unstable flooring woods and I never recommend using it over crawl spaces or in homes near water without taking great precautions

As far as moisture retarder, installing 15 lb felt paper between the maple and sub floor would have little to no effect on cupping.All the 15 lb felt does is spread out the moisture transmission.It doesn't not "stop" it. Your maple flooring would still have cupped the same amount.

As I mentioned , maple expands like crazy and moves like crazy.More than Oak does for sure. With anything over 3 inches, I actually do a full spread of glue. Staples alone aren't enough. And prior to installing the floor, I would check the crawl space ,sub floor and flooring for moisture content.Then I would determine if the maple flooring would be likely to expand or contract after installation.If I thought that the maple flooring was going to expand, which it usually does, I would also use spacers in between some of the rows to allow for expansion.

It's possible that you can correct your situation by re sanding . But if your maple floor dries out and contracts, it can leave some spaces. But as Stephen said, you can't just automatically put blame on the contractor.It sounds to me like both you and your contractor were very out of synch on this project.