You guys need to check out what that machine uses to sand the floor with. It ain't no pad or disk or belt. It hits in the grooves as well. If the floor isin't worn to the wood then yer good to go me thinks.

Your right this machines a pretty cool different animal. Especially exciting for all the pre-finished handscraped, even gets in the bevel, ( no buffer can do that), also looks pretty effortless. Looks like there's 3 grit brushes. Comes with the 80 grit for re-coating prefinished. Still searching for the sticker shock. But if you can hussle up the work, I'm sure it would pay for itself quick.

http://www.clarkeus.com/products/sanders/fa-8model.aspx

Here in Massachusetts there is no licensing for flooring, So they aren't breaking any laws. Just ruining the industry and floors.




That Clarke FA-8 is around $2,900. and replacement brushes are $155/ea. I found these on another site (www.onlinefloorstore.com)

It's the law out here to be licensed by the contractors board. They run you through all kinds of hoops, and costs a ton of money. That's why it pisses me off when I'm competing with a bunch of un-licensed guys. That being said..I know a lot of licensed guys that are hacks. This economy has definetely snowballed the price problem. Same things going on out here. I wish we could all get together and stick to our prices. Not be bidding jobs for less than bids 20 years ago.

I wonder how many guys are shelling out that kind of dough these days for that FA-8?

Sorry to be Mr. negative today.

I don't see much potential business with this machine. It says you can re-coat pre-finished. I've only seen prefinished re-coated once, and it was a total disaster. Bubbles everywhere. For some reason, the installers coated a brand-new floor. They probably did not abrade, though. And I don't know what type of finish they used. We totally sanded and re-finished.

Pre-finished is re-coated all the time. Like anything else...If you dont do it right your asking for problemos. This machine looks awesome to me for abraiding prefinished AO, scraped, wirebrushed, distressed, beveled. I dont see a buffer competing with it. IMO Clarke has a winner, and has solved problems.

Makes me wonder how many of these prefinished manufactures are going to be willing to bite the bullet and pay up when those 25...30..and 50 year finishes need a recoat.
I tell my clients to watch for wear and when it gets very dull looking...thats when you need to call the man.

Has anyone here re-finished a hand scraped floor? What is the process?

Here's a thought ....Maybe send a bus. card and a nice note to all your old clients, wishing them well and to be aware of dull areas in their finish, however you word it,( it's been 5 years, whatever ). You know homeowners,( put the bug in their head), that you would be happy to take a look at it. If you have to... get the manuf. out there, ( you know the manuf. is denying their claim), give the homeowner a price on a coat of finish. Once you get about 3000' of recoat work lined up...BUY THE CLARKE

That machine does look great for prefinished. Takes out most of the light scratches. Basic coatings Tye Coat system works but it doesn't remove any of the deeper scratches.

I started my business about 18 months ago and we haven't stopped. I don't know how anyone can make any money at 1.00 a sq foot or evene 2 bucks a square foot. Just too much work around the edges to do a job right.

For edging we use a Kunzel Tanzin extended edger at 80 grit to get the finish off. Then we use a 6 inch random orbital at 40 grit to take out any scratch pattern. Then over the whole floor with a Superbee at 60 and 80 grit. The Superbee is great for finishing and spreading the scratch pattern around. Then 100 screen. Maybe it is too much but with very little scratch pattern the floors look great.

We also use the ol bastard scraper for the corners and edges. It does stay sharp but you still need to work it.

Hey Tucson, read the fine print on those warantees. Boiled down to the bottom line, you are only covered if ya never walk on the floors or look sternly at them.
Basically, only if you come home one day and the finish has packed it bags and run away from home, will they cover you.

There's been a lot of answers already so I'll try not to repeat what has already been said. Sorry if I do.

Anyway, I've been primarily a sand and finish expert for about 15 years give or take. My install skills are average but I don't consider myself an install expert. As for sanding, I do the type of work where you need to get on your hands and knees to find any sanding imperfections. So take my opinions with a grain of salt because not every job has to be meticulous.

Now to answer your first question, the Lagler trio does not really replace Big Machines or edgers. It's really more of an advanced or glorified buffer.It can sand a floor but will force you to take more than twice as long to sand as using the common big machines and edgers. The Trio isn't designed for rapid wood removal like a Hummel can when set to full down pressure.The trio's job is to finish off the floor after the machining and edging is done and it does it extremely well. Since it can be more aggressive than a buffer, you can sometimes leave your floor slightly rougher than you normally would (possibly saving a 2nd or 3rd cut depending on the specifics of the job) and still get the floor finished off nicely and remove all sanding lines from the big machine and any fine spinners from your edger.

Here's an example of why someone might want the trio. Some woods are a pain in the ass especially maple. I finish off oak with either 100 or 120 grit abrasives on the big machine and edger. It depends on the floor I am dealing with and the sub floor quality ,etc. Then I use my disc buffer (Bonakemi 110v)with a 120 grit screen to finish off the floor . But on maple, that wont nearly do the trick . I have to usually go 40-80-150 with my Hummel or the buffer will not get out the big machine lines. And I get the kind of jobs where there can't be big machine lines, swirls or crap in the finish.

However, if I had the trio , I could finish off maple with 100 or 120 grit on my hummel and the trio being like a edger/ buffer hybrid has the ability to get those lines out . It isn't the Hummel's fault. It's just the nature of how some woods are difficult to work with if you want a perfect job. The reason why the trio doesn't exactly replace big machines and edgers is because it is designed to abrade the floor surface very evenly and smoothly. An edger like a Clarke B2 or 7R is far more aggressive

Like I said , take my opinions with some salt because I just sanded about 800 feet of old maple and the home owner couldn't see the thousands of sanding lines and edger swirls from the last guys that sanded the floor about 12 years ago.It looked like crap to me but she really didn't notice the sanding .She was only concerned about the worn out finish.That's all most homeowners see .

Now for your next question ," is the B2 better than the 7R ?" It depends. The B2 is more aggressive , heavier, and can cut faster than a 7R. Some guys prefer it for that .I happen to have both and prefer the 7R. I prefer the 7R because it is easier to control , requires much less maintainance , cuts flatter so can sometimes do a nice fine cut than the B2 depending on how you use it. The bigger factor is that the 7R slightly slower speed and chassis shape allows it to collect far more dust than the B2. I connect my edgers to vacuum systems and the 7R is nearly dustless but the B2 is kind of a dust pig and I score a lot of points on how clean my sanding jobs are .So that factor is important to me. Some guys hate the 7R because they aren't worried about dust and just put a small bag on the B2 and go to town.

As for technique ,I usually rough most floors with 50 grit 3M paper .I start about 1 inch behind the big machine line and move perpendicular to the boards (side to side) as this gets the boards cut flat and evenly without creating a dip on the big machine line. I get my edges super flat and super even which allows me to do a final cut with 100 grit or 120 grit .I start going side to side just like my rough cut.But in each section , I also twist the edger to about the 2 O'clock position and go with the boards to get out the cross marks from the side to side sanding. I move at a nice medium tempo and keep the edger moving evenly. Not too slow and not too fast. Change the paper a lot or you'll begin to polish or burnish the wood. Some guys do just one cut of 80 grit so techniques vary.It's possible to do a godo job that way and it is also possible to do a horrible job that way.It depends on the operator.

On most jobs , my edging is at a point where my disc buffer will easily blend in the big machine line and easily take out the fine swirls that the edger normally leaves . For dark stain jobs or bad floors, I will use a 5" Dewalt orbital sander with 80 or 100 grit to blend the edges if I feel the buffer can't do it . When you sand nicely you should be able to move your hand slowly across the edges and not feel any dip on the big machine line or and high low spots .if the house is mediocre and the sub floor is all over the place, then your goal should be to blend in the highs and lows as best as possible as perfect flatness wont be possible

Depending on what my customer wants in terms of finish and color, my prices range from $1.60 to $4.50 per square foot . I can't charge $4.50 for a normal sand and 3 coats of oil but I'd be happy to if it were possible. There's lots of fly by nighters here in Connecticut that work for $1.00 per foot or even less and lots of them are working illegally. IF you don't pay taxes and take your bosses sanding equipment you can manage to make money at those prices.I wish that there were enough checks and balances to keep non pros out of the business but it seems to keep getting worse instead of better.

Thanks for the great replies!

BIG AL, I realize I'm a little late into the conversation. Year or so, however, I happen to have the Trio and B2 by clarke. My suggestion to you is that you stick with the lighter super 7. The B2 weighs significantly more and really doesn't do anything that the Super 7 can't do. The Trio is a cool tool but really not worth the six grand or so. Trying to edge a floor with it will not work even with heavy grits. All it will do is fade the existing finish/stain on the floor, which will then need to be edged anyways. So what you will have done is haul a 170lb. machine out and wasted some time. I use it strictly on decorative floors such as herringbone and the like. It is great for floors like that with high grits. Low grits leave very distinct elliptical scratches on the surface of the floor, which then need to be removed with the proper sanding sequence. The other downside is that most of the time you need to special order the sanding discs. Pain in ass. I'm selling mine.

FLOORCASO out