Ray, no e-mail yet.

I'm curious to see the documentation.
I can't find it in either of my NWFA or NOFMA manuals.

Although I remember talk of movement direction because of the tongue side, being the side with fasteners in it.


Here is a simple test...


Take a dry board (8%) and shoot it down, with your fastener of choice.

Take a pencil and mark down both sides of the board.

Now take you steamer and increase the moisture content of that board as it is fastened.

Once it has gained MC look for your drawn lines!

The one on the fastened side is still visible. the other line is covered.

What does that tell us??

Hi Chuck,
So you agree that more expansion is on the tongue side? So we agree and no further discussion is needed.

I agree about the 3/4" expansion gapping in the three foot span not being needed.

Let me ask this: If you were to install 2 1/2" strip oak, nail down, in a room 45' x 60'..
Where would you place/nail your first row? And why would you start in that location?
Please tell us where you would place/nail your second row and why. What else would you do to conform to Nofma Standards concerning first and second rows?
The information will be sent upon proof of Million Dollars. I agreed to your offer and therefor we have a contract.

Just having a little fun with you Chuck.

Let me chime in please. Where did Chuck say that he agreed that T&G wood flooring nailed down expands in the direction of the tongue? And where is the documentation to support this assertion? If one just uses common sense, it would seem that:
1) It would work in the opposite manner since the fastener on the tongue side is providing some resistance to movement and the groove side has no resistance except the board next to it.
2) Here is where the type of fastener really matters. Do you, as the installer (oops, I meant flooring mechanic), want the flooring to be able to expand without cupping (less stable environment) or is the environment well controlled. The fastener choice will factor into how much the flooring will move.
3) Don't run across 2.5" strip, only 2.25" or 3.25". In a 45 x60 room, I would start in the middle and work both directions ( the NOFMA manuel says to start against a wall ). I would start in the middle for a couple of reasons. This would allow even expansion and contraction and a more efficient job. Once one side is pretty well racked and cut, one guy could be nailing while another is racking the opposite side. Also, on an install of this width (45') I'd seriously consider cleats instead of staples because cleats do not draw the wood as tight as staples and do allow for a little movement, which, in a 45' room you will need. I'd also allow for some expansion in the field if this was a plain sawn floor. With a quarter sawn floor, I would not be as concerned. I would UNDERCUT the sheetrock or paneling to allow for expansion and with a 1/2" to 3/4" gap on each side, this would be adequate. Although as Chuck and I stated before, any nailed down floor that would move this much would need to be flooded and would then be buckled and need to be removed. Would like to see the docs supporting flooring expanding more in one direction than in the other.

I give.

09876

Don't forget there is more simply volume on the tongue side. More fibers to collect moisture, more expansion.

hope ya' remembered that post.

I am so dense. Now I understand. At first I thought there was something about the construction of the T&G that made the board move one way more than another and that didn't make sense to me. But your explanation was great! It really helped me understand. Thanks!

We serious folk are bad to overthink these things. Sometimes the answer is too simple for us to grasp. We feel better about ourselves when we have solved some tedious enigma.

Thats the way I am,anyway. hoho

Wood:
wood fibers shrink with the reduction of wood moisture content and swells with the increase of wood moisture content.
More mass, more shrink and swell.
Simple as that.
This is enjoyable to watch as Chuck goes full circle from "wood does NOT shrink/swell (chuck prefers the word movement) more to the tongue side", to Wood does shrink/swell more to the tongue side.
Thank you for the debate chuck.
Now please consider the reason for this characterstic as being related to mass. Look at the ends of milled lumber and see more mass on the tongue side as well as the tongue protruding past the edge. More mass, more shrink/swell, combined with the fact the tongue protrudes past the surface edge adding to board width and increasing mass.
Sorry if I appear to be harassing you Chuck, I am only trying to help as Ken requested.
This all started with the effort to help a consumer concerning expansion gapping at his bannister.
Where is my million dollars?

Pass the Hemlock.

Chuck, ok, do you installed wood against ceramic tile? do you install the tongue tight against the tile? is this a trickquestion?

FUG THIS.

Lee,
With all due respect, the subject of this discussion is the installation of wood against wood in a three foot span.
I'm just a sweaty carpet layer. I know jack about wood. Enjoy your forum.