The cleat vs. staple controversy has been around for about twenty years (since Bostitch introduced the M111FS). The FACT is, staples do hold the wood and subfloor better, at least initially. Some believe staples lose holding power over time but I personally have not seen any evidence of that on floors I have installed and refinished 10 yrs. later. Some recommend that if one lives in a area with wide climactic swings in temp and humidity, cleats are preferable as they will allow some movement. Also recommended in the gulf states but I don't live in an area like that. What we experience here are sudden drops in humidity that dry floors out and cause gaps. In situations like that, staples or cleats don't make much of a difference so it becomes personal preference. In most cases, either/or is fine.

If we are comparing fasteners in a vacuum,cleats might have an edge. Overall,I trust staples. As Gary has stated ,with authority, staples outhold cleats. If Gary and I are on the same page,it has to be axiomatic! hoho

Hey Chuck,
You made me use my dictionary! New word for the day: axiom (axiomatic); an accepted general truth or priciple. Thanks! A good one!

No sweat. I get beat up by some for using what I consider to be universally understood terms. Axiom was from high skool math.

"Platitudinous". Look that up and see if you find the relevance to what we are supposed to take seriously these days from the "gurus" who pen instructions.

or "Rote"

Am I the only guy who feels his intelligence is insulted whenever he opens a carton of prefinished wood and reads the crap in the box?

Talked to the NOFMA guy at the convention today about the expansion contradictions. He says those specs are for the worse case scenario, ie flood.. They would rather the floor had room than to push the walls off the foundation. He mentioned it might be dependent on how the wall were fastened to the foundation and was not impressed with me observation that the flooded floors I have seen were buckled. He admitted that if a floor moved 3/4", there would be some fastening problems when the wood contracted. There was no answer on the issue of a 3' wide hallway or a 20' room having the same spec. By that time he didn't seeem to be in the mood to entertain questions about areas that will never see flooding, so I left it.
Thats the report from Honolulu about that.

Aha, one guy has made it to the convention this year! If you discover anything new let us know Marco.



If I'm reading you right; are you referring to the writing at a lower reading level? This happens all the time and depends on the audience who reads it. Take a look at my recent article in Fine Homebuilding magazine. You'll notice there are some paragraphs that don't look like my writing at all. Yes, it was edited. Some like to call it "dumbing down." They've probably done enough research to conclude their style should be written at a 6th grade reading level. Believe it or not!

How about installing the groove side against the bannister without leaving exansion space as the tongue side shrinks and swells more than the groove. Cheating is ok, if you know how to do it... Groove side against the bannister and leave 3/4" expansion on the opposite wall. In three feet of width there should be no problems.
Ray

Ray,
With all due respect, if you could provide any logical argument , based in wood science, in defense of what you just posted, I will mail you a check for one million dollars.

Wrong thread. Sorry.

good evening everybody that is still here. i am new to this site and i have a question, has anybody ever sanded travertine or heard of it. i'm on a job with my partner and the guys that laid the floors about six years ago grouted it with epoxy grout and didn't clean it very well. we have some ideas and we're going to try them tomarrow. i'll link back and see what y'all had to say and y'all how it went. P.S. we were told that chemicals would not work. [/b][/u]

Welcome bode,

I'm no expert on stone floors but to my understanding, one way that is done is to use special buffers and a water dam to polish the floors. Seems to me that there should be paste type abrasives (similar to automotive polishing compounds) that one could use to abrade and polish the stone with buffers. Just a thought!

Chuck,
Wow, do you have one million dollars? If you do, send verification before I send you the info.
Have you been to NOFMA installation training? Installation procedures are based on this well known trait.

The fastener has a big part in what you say.

What about a gluedown?

HI Perry,
How have you been these past few years since I've seen you last?

I'll send information to you in private email, not post it because of Chuck.
Or I can take pages out of different books and fax it to you.

When you ask about glue down.... Solids, Engineered? And why would you say the fasteners have a lot to do with NOFMA installation guidlines dictated by Shrink and Swell of Milled Solid Wood ?

Its a three foot span,Ray. Oak can't make 3/4in in 3 feet. Even at saturation.

I do this for a living, Ray. I cannot afford to be wrong. Have you ever been held liable for an incorrect report? Could you ever owe them more than what you were paid to opine?