I would like to install a tile look laminate in my kitchen. I have removed all of the old tile/linoleum down to original tongue and groove fir. (house built in 1917). Can i install the laminate over the hardwood directly or do i have to install an additional subfloor?

If i have to install a subfloor, can i install directly over the hardwood or does hardwood need to be cut out?

If i can install the laminate directly over original floor (with underlayment), is there a recommended floor leveling compound that can be used on the original floor without damaging old hardwood.

I would like to install the laminate without damaging the original flooring, but am not interested in refinishing the original floor at this time.

Any advice would be appreciated

It would be a shame to install a subfloor. Installing a subfloor will do some damage to the Fir.

Whether you can install Laminate right over the top of that Fir depends on a few things.

How flat is the subfloor? Manufacturers have their specs on subfloor flatness, to avoid too much "give" on the seams of the laminate flooring. I would contact the manuf., or read the specs. Maybe put a straight edge accross the Fir, and measure the variation.

There are also different laminate underlayments to take into consideration. The laminate manuf. may prefer one for your situation that will work, ( again all depending on flatness of the Fir ).

In the past I have used a product called Quiet Walk by Global Products. I think it's a great product. They state "smooths out little subfloor imperfections". Then again I would check on my "imperfections", or flatness. Maybe see what they think.

http://quietwalk.com/quietwalk/index.html

If you do have to install an underlayment, you can go directly over the subfloor. Again , I sound like a recording , but it depends on the flatness of the fir, as to what underlayment thickness you would go with.
I guess it does worry me a bit that you asked about using a "leveling compound ". Hopefully the subfloor isn't that bad. You wouldnt want to use a leveling compound anyway. It would destroy the Fir , ( for future sanding ), and you would run the risk of the fill popping and breaking loose with subfloor movement.

Thanks so much for your response floorologist, i have not measured the levelness of the floor to ensure it is within the allowable limits (visually it doesn't look bad), was asking about a leveling compound as i thought it may be the way to get a "perfectly" level floor and to minimize some of the filler i will need to use on gouges from scraping off glue.....In addition there is still some glue left which may need to be scraped, but i will definitely check out the levelness before i proceed as well as looking at 'quiet walk' as my underlayment.
Thanks again

There is a difference between being "flat" and "level". What you really need to be concerned with is the flatness of the subfloor.

You shouldnt have to be concerned about removing ALL the adhesive. Trowell marks from a vinyl installation should not be large enough to affect the laminate underlayment. You will want to smooth out any adhesive bumps, large ridges, or clumps.
Some "gouging" from scraping the adhesing, should be o.k. also, ( it would have to be some pretty radical, deep gouging to cause problems.

One of the beauties of laminate flooring is minimal prep, as long as it's within manuf. specs.

Hi, again....i have checked the "flatness" of the floor. The vast majority of it is within the man. specs. of 3/8". HOWEVER, there is one part approx 27"(inches) long by 42" wide that drops to 1/2 inch variance.

Any suggestions for that portion to bring it up to the allowable variance?

the product i was planning to use is DuPont Real Touch Premium Laminate flooring...i thought i read somewhere that the allowable variance could be up to 3/16" over 8 ft. span, but now i can't find it.

I have an idea! Why not real tile? ))

The Laminates I'm familiar with call for a variance of no more than 1/4" in 8 to 10 feet, for subfloor flatness.

From my experience 3/8" in 8' is too much variance. I would sure say that the area your talking about with the 1/2" variance, is extreme. The laminate will bounce or "give" too much in that area, compromising the structural integrity of the floor.

I went to the DuPont site to see the specs, ( too hard to read ). They do say they want "subfloor flatness" but I couldnt find, or read any specs.
They do have a number to call for technical assistance on their Tile Laminate. You may want to give them a call and find out what they require, as well as thei opinion on flatening out the problem areas.
1877-438-6824.

If I was installing the floor, I would use 1/2 ply and fill in that low area. Use my sander and feather that area to the rest of the subfloor. Then sheet out the whole subfloor with 3/8" ply.
I would be cautious of fillers due to future subfloor movement, and bonding to the Fir.

I know you are trying to avoid damaging theFir. But to install this laminate right, you may have no choice. You sure dont want to cut corners and have the laminate fail.

Thanks again for your response....made a mistake on the 3/8....it was 3/16" over 8 ', same as what u identified.

now for the dumb question (i am a real newbie to flooring)
....if i use 1/2 inch plywood to even out the dip, could i not just nail it in to the hardwood? Why would i need to install a complete subfloor if i can get that area level?


I really appreciate all the advice you are giving....when i started this project i promised my husband he wouldn't have to do any work (such as putting in a sub-floor) LOL

Another person suggested i use real tile....would this make any difference? would i not still have the same problem with the low section?

Will contact Dupont as well, thanks for the #.

I mentioned sheeting out over the entire floor because I thought you were 3/8" in 8' ( over tolerance ) . But 3/16 is barley within.

You could just fill in the "dip with 1/2" plywood. It would be a little tricky without sheeting out the entire floor, and over the leveled dip.
Screws would be best for fastening. But here's the tricky part. You would have to cut your plywood shape, and do your sanding before securing it to the floor. Do your cutting, sanding , or planing, until you have the perfect insert for the dip. I would temporarly tack the plywood down, in the middle , to achieve the flatness, and feathered edges that you need. It will definetely take some patience. Obviously you cant screw , or even countersink nails , and then be able to sand, or plane a feathered edge.
( you would be hitting screws, or nail heads).

Filling would sure be easier. But there's no guarantee a filler wouldnt loosen in time, with movement, over that Fir subfloor. I imagine you might be able to fill if you screwed down lath first. I just havent tried that process. And then there's the feathered edge to deal with.

Tile instead ? After all this? Just kidding

I'm not a tile contractor . But I believe theres a couple options. An Installer would lath over the entire subfloor, and float a morter bed. Or fill the dip with thinset, and thinset , and screw backer board over the entire subfloor.

thanks again for all your advice...will let you know what i ended up doing. LOL