Hello, 3 months ago I bought a house, had 1,000 sqft of tile ripped up and engineered hardwood glued down directly to the concrete slab.
Well, there's end peaking(a couple of millimeters) and a little delimitation happening over approximately 40% of the install and centralized in one large room.

The contractor that did the work(who was recommended by the store that sold me the wood) ordered an independent inspection. He has been very good about calling me, coming to see the work and following up.

Here's 2 parts of that inspection report that I have questions about:

"A moisture test of the wood with a Lignomat SDM meter showed moisture content in an uninstalled plank of 6.4%. A moisture test of the installed product with the same meter showed readings in unaffected areas of 7.3% to 11.6%. A moisture test in affected areas showed moisture readings of 11.1% to 23.7%. (The saturation point of wood is 25% to 30%, depending on the species.)"

"Conclusion: The end joint peaking, delamination, and subsurface irregularities are all consistent with subsurface moisture contamination. This is a site related condition and is not indicative of a manufacturing related concern in the wood itself.

If a moisture vapor barrier was used or if a combination adhesive/moisture vapor barrier was used, then removal of the planks is necessary to determine with certainty if a manufacturing related concern is indicated in this moisture vapor barrier or if it was properly applied."

So, this leads me to believe that the wood manufacturer isn't at fault. The contractor's installation technique isn't at fault, but either the initial humidity readings or the type of glue(non moisture barrier) are the cause of this.

If anyone has any thoughts as to what's happening or opinions on course of action, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
-Tiger

Have your own independent inspection performed and make sure he is NWFA certified.

then compare notes.

You can remove a few test what type of adhesive was used, to determine glue coverage as well send out the planks to a lab to test what type of adhesive was used.

you can request the Installer to provide record of his inspections and moisture related tests prior to installation.
Ask him what adhesive or installation method was used?

Some cupping I can see. but delamination most always points to manufacturing.

I have literally soaked engineered products in a bucket of water and not witnessed delamination if quality products. Not to say its not possible..but not really likely form mere vapor transmission in my opinion.

What type and make of floor was it?

Some delam could also be shearing which is not the same animal.

It is a process of elimination. Moisture readings that high are definitively caused by excessive moisture now the only question is to prove where it is coming from. Pull a board in your highest area and insert a rh plug in the concrete. Following protocol i.e. 40% of the depth of the slab read them 3 days later if over 75% of RH there is the culprit. If less than 75% particularly if less than 55% look for another reason. Test moisture content of other wood framing etc not in contact with the concrete. Do you have Evaporative cooling if so take ambient rh readings if more than the mfg high range usually 55% there is the culprit, though it takes a prolonged period of time generally for that to happen. If have seen clients utilizing steam cleaners and hot water wet mopping that can cause this to happen. James TRD is correct get a NWFA inspector in your area to preform the above mentioned tests. Make sure he will perform RH readings in the slab. The moisture readings you are given are definitely excessive but that in itself is not proof that it is coming from the slab. Go to www.woodfloors.org to find an inspector.

Thank you guys so much for such a speedy in-depth reply...
Just a few things. The inspector does have a NWFA# and a FCITS # by the way...

But here's my question right now as the contractor has all of a sudden stopped returning calls...

If the contractor took readings before the install, and the correct wood was ordered, the correct glue was ordered and the install was correctly done...could this possibly be blamed on me or the house?

(no leaks whatsoever, proper maintenance, no pipe breaks or anything)

I'm just worried they're going to say call your home owners insurance, you're on your own.
Who IS responsible?

-Tiger

I will say this, end joint peaking on engineered is somewhat normal. However, his racking really sucks.

I Think its time for you to reveal more.

what state are you in? do you live on a property with high ground water tables?

i see its a Tigerwood floor

what manufacturer?

what did the installers contract say he was using regarding the glue?

If he does have readings before and during install and used the correct adhesive and the right spread rate and you now have elevated moisture tables not present at time then yes, you may be SOL as they say and have to pay for repairs.

Have you spoke to manufacturer?did they send a rep to view the problem? that should be the next step.

I would also get the adhesive tested..I know a of a situation where exactly this was done..we quoted the job..guy got it done by someone else..problems cupping and letting loose off the cement.. we quoted again for replacement as a courtesy to a GC buddy of mine..the HO who was also an Archy sent it to some Lab to make sure the right glue was used..came back to be some HomeDepot acrylic adhesive not rated for this install for a Mirage floor..

Yep, very likely the cause. I've seen it too.

Just got off the phone with the contractor, he walked me through the inspection and here's the net-net.

He said his Tramac(sp?) reading showed between 1.5 - 3.2 throughout the entire house on 2 occasions before the install. So the glue ordered was not anything special, nor did it include a vapor barrier.
He then said because of the heavy rains that came after the installation, the ground water/moisture then came up and contaminated the floor.

So James and Ken, that goes with exactly what you're saying...

I'm in Florida. The house is on a flat piece of ground, almost sandy as I'm a mile from a big river.

Should this have been foreseen?
Is there a way to truly verify his pre install readings?

Now that we know what was used, what are my next steps?

(I really do feel for any contractor that has a job go south, but at the same time, I feel like I hired an expert, I went through a national chain that supplied the wood and the adhesive, I put my floor in their hands and paid all my bills immediately. And then when I almost immediately started finding massive hollow spots under the floor...it's the site/houses fault?)

-T

The proverbial snapshot of the concrete. Any moisture test is. I hope the contractor documented those readings and the adhesive manufacturer specs a CME test in their literature, which some still do to my amazement.

Stephen, could you elaborate a little?

1. Are you saying he needed to document his readings and am I entitled to those initial readings?

2. Are you saying a test of the floor with the wood and the adhesive should have been done by standards of the adhesive manufacturer?


-T

I just found out that Bostik Pro-cure was ordered as the adhesive.

I pulled this from Bostik's site:

"LIMITATIONS
• Test all concrete slabs for moisture using anhydrous calcium chloride moisture test kits, according to ASTM F1869, to determine the Moisture Vapor Emission Rate (MVER). No more than 3 lbs. per 1,000 sq. ft. (1,36 kg per 92,9 m2) per 24 hours is allowed. Concrete slabs with MVER higher than 3 lbs. per 1,000 sq.ft. per 24 hours (reference ASTM F1869) should be treated with Bostik’s MVP4. Please refer to MVP4 Data Sheet."

If this test was not done, and I know it was not, does this shift culpability?

-T

It would if you could prove he didnt take the tests and or show they were not as specified at the time..the best way to do this is to make a floor plan layout of the space..document where readings were took approximately..in at least 4-5 spots per room and more in larger room..and have the Owner either present or initial the document.

no one can be responsible for ground water escalation..
Knowing that this area may be known for this in advance is helpful for any installer.

I dont know conditions there and if this is common.however, I would think in Florida that any slab would require some form of prep/barrier,sealer

Bostiks Ultra single step does it all in one step..expensive but good insurance and less labor.