So we got the keys to our "new" house today, and finally were able to pull up the carpet and see what's underneath. It's some sort of old, ugly, brown speckled looking tile -- linoleum, I think. Or maybe it's vinyl -- whatever it is, it's in tile format. We thought that it was concrete slab underneath, and were going to float an engineered hardwood (BR111 Triangulo) over it. I have no idea how old this tile is, but the house was built in 1958, and the previous owner was there for 35 years -- I'm guessing the tile is from before her ownership, so it's very old, probably installed in the '60s. Hence, I don't want to have to rip it up, out of asbestos concerns, and well, I just don't want to deal with ripping it up if at all possible.

So the question is, how does this affect our hardwood floor plans?

1) Can we still float BR111 Triangulo over this tile?

2) If so, do we need a moisture barrier beyond a 2-in-1?

3) What other prep should we do for the linoleum/vinyl floor beneath the hardwood?

Don't remove that VAT. It probably does contain asbestos. Just check for flatness and if within tolerences, lay over that old VAT floor with your 2 in 1 underlayment. I would check to see if the tile is secure and not loose. If your on a slab, you could lay 6 mil plastic first, then your foam underlayment then float your floor in.

What happens if there are levelling issues with the tile? Am I basically hosed?

So you'd recommend the 6 mil and foam, rather than a 2-in-1 underlayment?

Flatten it over the tile, and then totally skimcoat with ARDEX SD-F or Mapei PlaniPatch.

It is your choice. One or the other is fine with the underlayment.

concrete or wood?
laying plastic on wood sub-floor may trap moisture and warp the floor underneath. If you have a wood sub-floor, please check specifications. Make sure plastic moisture barrier on the ground under the home test the wood subfloor from the bottom. VAT breaths, if it is VAT, and allows vapor to move through. If it is vinyl tile, it will also breath. Trapping Moisture Vapor with plastic is dangerous.
If concrete, the plastic will trap moisture, react with the glue and lift the tile.
SO, My suggestion is to first determine if you have a wood sub-floor or concrete. If wood, lay underlayment without plastic moisture barrier and place plastic on the ground. Make sure ventilation is sufficient. Please read the installation and subfloor requirements for the BR111 products to make sure I'm giving sound information.

Ray, I think they said concrete in the original post.

If the tile releases under the moisture barrier(floater), what's it going to do? Fall up?

Yea Ray, she said concrete slab. Your recommendations are spot on IF it was over a wood subfloor; but it isn't. They need to protect their floating wood floor from moisture. So what if some tiles loosen up, what's gonna happen. Better to have a few loose tiles under the floor than have the wood floor ruined from moisture. If the tiles are so loose now that you can practically just pick them up ( I've seen it ) then go ahead and remove the VAT. If not, best not to disturb those tiles and cover them up. A floater is a good idea in this case.

I've contacted BR-111 as well, and they said floating over the tiles was the safest and best bet. They did mention that the sound would not be so great, but I can live with that. I believe I'm going to go with Quickstep Quietwalk as the underlayment, as that's one of the ones they recommended. Thanks for all your help!

And it's me again One final question, if you guys have time: We've pulled up all the carpet, and the vinyl tile underneath looks to be in great shape and nearly perfectly level (albeit quite ugly), EXCEPT for around the edges where the carpet tack strips were nailed in. Some of the tiles have cracked/broken about an inch or two from the wall -- so what to do?

Do I pull the small broken pieces up and try to fill in the slight declivity near the edges of the wall (if so, what do I use? Cement seems like overkill, so can I use something like DAP Concrete Patch?) Or should I leave the broken pieces there and just try to fill in the cracks (again, with what?)? Or remove the broken pieces, and just install the floor as-is with it being not quite level around the edge of the floor?

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

At the perimeter of the room it is not going to matter one way or the other.

I would remove all the loose pieces, but not the whole tile if it is stuck.

Transitions across doorways I would do the same and spot fill with a 6" putty knife and filler.

Either way the 1/8" of just the tiles is within spec if you don't fill it. But a blown out pock in the concrete across a transition needs to be addressed as I mentioned above with floor patch, using a 6" putty knife.

I have a similar situation as Bobby_Jo. My family room is at/above grade and is covered with circa 1966 ugly tile - probably asbestos impregnated. However, unlike Bobby_Jo, I am looking at the BR-111 5/16" solid wood amendoim floor. (Unfortunately, BR-111 doesn't make engineered flooring in the trianglo or cassanova lines in amendoim. Only the 5/16" engineered which has a very thin wear layer. So I am stuck with either the 7/16" or the 5/16" solid options. If anyone has any suggestions as to any other options for amendoim, I'm listening)

The BR111 brochure recommends stapling or gluing. It makes no mention of floating. Given that, what would be the recommended procedure of securing the floor, whether stapling or gluing, and with what underlinements?

Much thanks!

Adam

Do a floating subfloor with either 3/8 to 1/2" OSB, cutting it into 16" x 8' planks, staggering them, the opposite direction you want the flooring to be installed, over a dual moisture barrier system.

Then glue the flooring down to the OSB, with a Bosticks, Franklin, or Parabond, urethane adhesive

Thanks floorguy!

So I guess that the OSB, after it is glued to the thin hardwood, would act as the "working half" of what would normally be engineered flooring.

This should definitely help.

Yes, that is exactly correct.



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I think read elsewhere on this site that the br 111 triangulo is coming out in amendiom late winter.

anyone else know anything about this?

I was looking at the johnson engineered amendiom but might wait for the br 111. does anyone know the difference between the two?

thanks~!!