Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:07 pm 
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I installed Max Windsor engineered hardwood over a concrete subfloor. I installed a visqueen plastic and used a thick underlayment with a moisture barrier (Lexfloor's acoustic sound). The floor is gapped around the perimeter but the area in the middle of the fireplace (approximately 3' across and 2' down is buckling. It's been raining a lot lately and they've used their fireplace. Any ideas on how to fix this problem would be greatly appreciated. thank you.


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Amish made hardwood

 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:12 pm 
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It's hard to imagine a floor that is buckling and not locked in somewhere unless someone spilled a bucket of water on it. I'd double check that area's perimeter again.

Are they using any heat other than the fireplace? Whats the rh in that room and temp?

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Max Windsor is pretty bullet proof.
Are the planks cupped at the fireplace ?
If so it's possible there's a moisture issue at that location. Maybe from the excessive rain ?
Usually if a floor is "locked in", on a floated install, it will peak along the length of a seam. But I just cant imagine that product being locked in.

I would first check moisture readings at that area.

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:21 am 
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How did you finish around the fireplace hearth? Some guys think it is only a snall area so they will butt tight. or if you used an overlapping is there enough gap underneath?


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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:02 am 
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I am thinking that the fireplace is somehow the culprit in some way.
Is the flashing at the roof line intact? Could water be seeping in un-noticed and affecting the floor in this area?
If you used an overlap reducer to trim around the hearth, did you glue it in place. It happened to us a couple times where too much glue was used and it made contact with the floor, thus effectively locking it in place. We now take the extra time to screw in the locking track when so equiped or are very careful to not let the glue touch the actual floor.

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:02 am 
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floormeintucson wrote:
It's hard to imagine a floor that is buckling and not locked in somewhere unless someone spilled a bucket of water on it. I'd double check that area's perimeter again.

Are they using any heat other than the fireplace? Whats the rh in that room and temp?


thank you for your reply. i'm not familiar with "rh"


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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:04 am 
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dennis wrote:
I am thinking that the fireplace is somehow the culprit in some way.
Is the flashing at the roof line intact? Could water be seeping in un-noticed and affecting the floor in this area?
If you used an overlap reducer to trim around the hearth, did you glue it in place. It happened to us a couple times where too much glue was used and it made contact with the floor, thus effectively locking it in place. We now take the extra time to screw in the locking track when so equiped or are very careful to not let the glue touch the actual floor.


thanks for the reply...is there anyway to fix the buckling?? (i did use an overlap end molding with a 1" gap around the fireplace and secured it with liquid nail and micro-pinner nails). i'll check for water/moisture.


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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:07 am 
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jeff burstein wrote:
How did you finish around the fireplace hearth? Some guys think it is only a snall area so they will butt tight. or if you used an overlapping is there enough gap underneath?


i used an end molding around the fireplace w/a 1" gap around the fireplace. (liquid nail and micro-pinner). the buckled area seems to be right in the middle of the fireplace... if i trim the edges of the floor will the floor lay down on it's own...basically i'm trying to figure out if i'm totally screwed here. this was a 16K job (the biggest I've ever done) and this is the 1st and biggest problem i've ever had. i'm bummed!


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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:15 am 
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I would sure check for moisture first, before I jump the gun. Moisture sounds to me the most likely problem, and that's not your problem.

Which way do the planks run? Length at fireplace, or ends ?

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Floorologist wrote:
I would sure check for moisture first, before I jump the gun. Moisture sounds to me the most likely problem, and that's not your problem.

Which way do the planks run? Length at fireplace, or ends ?


Thanks for getting back to me on this. I feel glad that I found this resource to help me sharpen my skills and hopefully avoid problems like this. The wood runs with the ends at the fireplace...the floor is buckling from the middle of the fireplace and out each direction. the floor was gapped...the floor is buckled. how do i get the floor to lay down?


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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:58 pm 
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So the boards point into the fireplace? and there is expansion at the end under the trim piece. My instincts are just howling at me that water is coming in at or near the FP location. But then again, my instincts helped me choose the wrong wife too, so what do I know?

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:46 pm 
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The first step before repairing the floor is to locate the source of the problem.

It sure does sound like everything is pointing toward water coming in somewhere around the fireplace. Do you have a moisture meter? It's a must have. You first need to take moisture readings at the damaged area. This will tell you if the problem is caused by moisture coming in. Then we go from there. If moisture is coming in, the homeowner will need to repair the problem that is causing water to come in. Then the floor can be repaired. We can talk you through this , after the problem is solved.

I would bet it's moisture from the fireplace. If it's not, we will figure it out.
If you can, it would be very helpful to take a picture when you go over there, and post it for us. This will also be helpful with repair advice.

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Step #1 What you want to do immediately is pry up that over lapping transition strip first. Slip a large metal putty knife uinder the edge then the pry bar on top of that so as not to marr the flooring working your way around the fireplace. Then you'll be able to see if it's locked in and release pressure (see step #3) on the floor before it damages it even more. Then check for water intrusion.

Step #2 One way to check is slip a paper towels arond the fireplace and see if they get wet.

Step # 3 Is relieving pressure if it is locked in with sharp chisel or a multifunction tool

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:06 pm 
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It is a good idea to pry up the transition moulding first,( it has to come up anyway ). Maybe you can get a visual on any staining from moisture. I guess the paper towell may work if the bricks wet enough to transfer moisture :roll: But the brick and the wood can peg the needle on a moisture meter and not transfer noticible moisture to a paper towel. Every hardwood floor installer needs a moisture meter.

I dont see how it can be locked in at the fireplace for numerous reasons, but one being, it's an engineered product with cross grain construction, on top of that, the ends are going into the fireplace.

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 Post subject: Re: I installed eng. hardwood (floating) - it's buckling-help!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Floorologist wrote:
It is a good idea to pry up the transition moulding first,( it has to come up anyway ). Maybe you can get a visual on any staining from moisture. I guess the paper towell may work if the bricks wet enough to transfer moisture :roll: But the brick and the wood can peg the needle on a moisture meter and not transfer noticible moisture to a paper towel. Every hardwood floor installer needs a moisture meter.

I dont see how it can be locked in at the fireplace for numerous reasons, but one being, it's an engineered product with cross grain construction, on top of that, the ends are going into the fireplace.




Now now don't be mean, I have two pin meters and would send him my cheapo meter if I knew him well enough. :P I was thinking water intrusion not vapor

I didn't think he would have a meter, is he an installer? He might have to call around for one.

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Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
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