We currently have old heart of pine floors that are in bad shape--many seams where walls once stood, termite damage, some new wood mixed in, etc. We want to install a new floor on top of it. I know if not putting down a subfloor first, you should run the new floor at 90 degrees to the old or at minimum run it on the diagonal. The flooring guy at the local store told us it is because if you lay in the same direction, you may be nailing into the void between two of the old boards. Is this true? Is this the only reason? If so, we were thinking you could simply get the exact same width flooring and offset it so each plank ends in the center of the old floor plank. There must be more to it than the flooring guy stated. Please enlighten me if there are more reasons. Thanks.

De

Yes, it is possible.



No, there are several concerns. The major reason is due to the fact that running the boards in the same direction can create an uneven floor due to variations in the floor with so many seams. If there is a void under the board long ways (with the grain) there is the possibility of the board cracking over time if the void is large enough. Also, when you run it across the boards you are dispersing smaller breaks over a larger amount of seams, which helps to level the floor across the old floor. You can install it parallel to the existing wood floor but you risk having an inconsistent floor that is wavey. If you do lay it parallel The only way to ensure that the seems do not land together on any boards is to get a product the exact same width as the existing floor and offset the seams. It can be done but it is not recommended. For the minimal investment of putting down ½ plywood over the floor you could alleviate this concern.

What concerns me more is the termite damage in the existing floor. Has this been remedied? Do not install a new floor over the existing floor if it still has live termite’s in it.

The poor termites have been banished. The house was tented before we moved in. The termite damage is actually kind of cool looking. They used to have carpet and the termites created little tunnels on the top of the floor--it's the good old rustic charm look that people pay big bucks for.

We could lay a subfloor down but it creates more problems--we're going to use 3/4 solid flooring and the subfloor would add another 1/2 and would be over 1" total increase in height--wreaking havoc with my doorways. It would also increase the cost substantially.

I was kinda leaning towards using reclaimed wide plank antique oak flooring and face nailing. That way I could avoid nailing into a void. But if you are correct about the possibility of eventual cracking if my bottom floor is not perfectly flat, that would rule that out. We hate to run the boards at 90 degrees because we have two rooms that are 19x9 (a bowling alley effect) and I think it would look terrible to have the boards running the short way. Since it's a 1920s house I was afraid the diagonal run would look too modern.

Thanks for alerting me to the other problems. Any other ideas for avoiding a subfloor?

De

The fastners go in at a 45 so the chances and the worry about nailing into a void would be only a small concern. A wavey floor would be what to look out for imo. If the current floor cannot be raised can it be removed? It would be close to the labor to install a new layer of ply but no material involved and no height concerns. If the exsisting floor is truely flat and sound you could run the floor in the same direction but I think we have covered the issues involved with going that route.

We could pull it up but we would still have the cost of putting down a subfloor--the current floor is nailed directly to the joists--I guess no plywood in the 1920s.

Do you know of any websites showing pictures of floors installed running the short way instead of along the long wall? Maybe if I used very wide planks it wouldn't look as bad?

What a pain!

I spoke to the flooring store and they suggested floating an engineered floor on top in the same direction. I'm just not a fan of engineered floors though.

I'm checking on the wide plank flooring (6-10") and they think they can get me some in 10' lengths so that I can run a continuous board across the room for the whole 9' so it doesn't look so choppy. I'm thinking with the wide planks it won't look so bad that the floor is running in the wrong direction.

Thanks for the info.

De

To eliminate the nail in the seam problem you could nail and glue the plank flooring. Sand the finish off the existing pine before installing the new floor. Lay a straight edge across the existing floor to see if it is wavy. If it is reasonably flat I think the new floor will look good. It’s usually a good idea to glue wide plank flooring anyway and you will not have to face nail.

And I would not go with the 6" to 10" plank if you run the flooring in the same direction as the existing flooring. In my humid area I would only go about 4" max.
Have you checked out the moisture situation(high-low) under this floor?

It is considered poor building practice to "marry" a new floor to an old floor. Another reason not mentioned is wood floor movement. All solid wood floors will move, regardless of age. When you run them in opposing directions, this tends to minimize the effects of movement. Since the species and sizes will be different, running then in the same direction can pose problems with normal expansion and contraction as they will move at different rates. Is it possible to sand the old floors and refinish them? Sounds like you want a rustic appearance. Perhaps your old subfloors will give that to you if properly sanded and finished. Just an idea.

Unfortunately we have already sanded and refinished the existing floors and they are still inadequate. The seams where the walls were moved do not line up so the boards cannot be easily interlaced to eliminate the seams--whole sections of flooring would have to be removed. It would also not solve the problem of not having a subfloor. The cold air comes up through the current floor. We are unwilling to crawl around under the house to install insulation under the floor and by the time we paid to get the seams fixed and the insulation installed, it would probably be more than just purchasing a new floor. We like the look of the wide plank Southern Heart Pine and I think it will look ok to run it 90 degrees to the current floor. I'm going to print up some pictures of the room and superimpose the flooring we're interested in and see how it looks. We like the look of face nailing and I'm sure it would be necessary in our environment (Houston, TX). We have plenty of ventilation under the house so we're not concerned with moisture although we would lay down felt paper before installing the new floor.

De

If you are going to use Southern Heart Pine you can glue it to the existing pine in any direction you want. We glue Antique Heart Pine(square edge) and nail\glue down to old worn pine floors all the time. Most of the old homes in the south that have no subfloor usually used vertical grain pine flooring with very high resin content and very close grain,it moves very little. You do not have to face nail this floor if you glue it.
There are other things we do here successfully on the gulfcoast that are considered bad building practice in other parts of the country.

Buddy,

Why does the floor need to be glued down? We like the rustic look of face nailing (we were going to use the old fashioned square nails). My husband didn't really want to mess with glue. Since we're putting down felt paper first to deal with the draft issue we wouldn't be glueing directly to the old wood floor anyway.

Are you saying because of the age and type of wood of my current floor that I can pretty much do any type of installation I want with any wood or just if we use the Southern Heart Pine? I agree that our floors are way past the major movement stage. It is very old growth pine with rings so tight you can barely see between them. Right now they just have a Waterlox tung oil finish on them so no matter what we install we were not going to strip the floors first. I appreciate all the differing opinions. We're waiting to see samples of the wide plank flooring before me make a final decision.

De

He made the suggestion because Glue will help to minimize the movement, you can still face nail it if you want too. They will just be more for decoration than anything else.

I assume the glue suggestion won't work if we're using felt paper?

No you full trowel glue directly to the existing floor with a urethane based glue like bostik's