Amish made hardwood

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 Post subject: Installation in old house which seems to break all the rules
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Ive been studying this forum intently and, upon inspecting my home, I have found a lot of the rules about hardwood floors have been broken in my home, and yet they have stood the test of time. Im not questioning the rules, but my question is...why?

My house was built at the turn of the century (c. 1900). I have found teh following.

1. A hardwood floor in the parlor and den was installed parallel to the joists. This was done perhaps 50, 80 or even 100 years ago. Other than faded finish/ It looks perfect, at least in terms of flatness, etc. Nothing bad ever happened. Perhaps in 1900 they put in super-strong subfloors?

2. My first american cherry floor (in kitchen) was installed by a local company. I knew NOTHING about hardwood installation, but watched them do it. They laid a cherry hardwood floor right over an old linoleum floor. with the staples going directly into the wood deep below. They said no moisture barrier was necessary because the linoleum was more than sufficient (yikes!). And, if you are not already gagging, it was a hot summer and they just put the wood in right away with NO accclimation. However, the hardwood was a LOCAL product from a LOCAL mill (right in town), and had obviously been "acclimated to their warehouse" for months. Not sure how thats relevant to my home, however.

More than 1 year later, the floor still looks as good as the day they installed it (minus some dings and scratches on a soft Am. CHerry floor). Not even a hint of warping, erupting expansion, etc. Did I dodge a bullet? Or....am I going to hear all sorts of possible "what might happen" stories in years coming down the road..ack.

3. More of a question than a comment. I am going to put in the remainding rooms myself (actually, I already did one in a small room 8 montsh ago and it still looks amazing). IN order for me to maintain the direction of teh hardwood floor consistent in the next room, I have to install parallel to the joists. The "subfloor" is that 1970's era 1/4 inch "faux wood wall paneling" nailed down onto a 1-INCH-THICK set of planks (thats right, not 3/4, I said 1 inch) that was orginal to the home. I know this was some kind of paneling because the face down side is a finished "woodgrain" veneer. Believe it or noth, this was nailed down as a moisture barrier(?) for the carpet that is there currently. Can I put down the paper or felt moisture barrier and nail directly through that into the 1" thick planks? Or do I have to tear these panels out? Im relatively new at this, and may have learned all teh wrong things by watching the company install my floor.


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Amish made hardwood

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:55 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:42 pm
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Location: Antioch, CA. 94509
In reply to observations about your house, the recommendations were written way after your home was built. And those recommendations were written with regards to more modern building techniques and materials. So...

1) They could most likely get away with laying the flooring parallel to the joist direction because of the strong, 1" thick subfloor planks. Solid subfloor planks have much less deflection than engineered lumber, such as plywood or OSB. And they may have laid those subfloor boards at a right angle to the joists, which means they needed to run the flooring at right angles to the subflooring, which would be parallel to the joists. Both NOFMA and the NWFA say one can lay flooring parallel to the joists IF the subflooring is stiff enough. Yours obviously is.
2) It is perfectly fine to lay hardwood over lino or vinyl flooring as long as any underlayment below is an acceptable substrate, such as plywood. Lino and vinyl do make a fair vapor retarder and vinyl is recommended as a vapor barrier/retarder for hardwood glued over concrete. Acclimation is a matter of the flooring being equalized to the ambient temperature and humidity of the building it is going into. If your house was similar to that wharehouse, then there should be no problem doing it that way. Sometimes, it is wiser to acclimate flooring off site if the site is currently under going a temporary spike in humidity, as can happen in construction projects due to the wet trades. Also, American Cherry is a fairly stable wood.
3) You may be able to install through that paneling if it is real wood paneling. NOFMA and the NWFA recommend not nailing to or through particle board or composite hardboards (like masonite). But being that yours is 1/4" thick, the 2" fasteners will go all the way through and into that thick subfloor. The downside is that you cannot see the joists to renail or screw down the sub floor planks, which may be somewhat loose after 100 years. If it were me, I'd take out that paneling and refasten those planks to avoid squeeks. Then lay your new flooring a right angles to the sub floor paneling. Use 15 lb. asphalt felt as a VAPOR RETARDER ( not moisture barrier) There really isn't such as thing once you drive nails and staples into it.

Sounds as if you have had some good fortune with your flooring. Glad to hear it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:48 am
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Gary-

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. It seems I have been fortunate with this flooring. I must say that after reading this forum, and your posts in particular, there is much more that I never knew about. Im glad I didnt go and install a hardwood floor on my brother's house out in California like he wanted me to. He's on a concrete slab and I would never have thought about the moisture issue. Reading this stuff has made me realize there is a lot more that I never would have guessed.

Thanks for the input!

Paul


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