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 Post subject: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:46 am 
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Location: Tucson AZ
Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?

Why is our industry the only trade to allow people with no installation experience become inspectors? If anyone out there with no flooring experience has a grand burning a hole in their pocket they can get certified by a host of so called certification entity's out there.

Do you know the process of having your "certification business" approved?
Well just ask a couple of carpet mills to look it over and whalla, your in business. And they will pay you handsomely to provide hired gun inexperienced inspectors to go out on claims.

I know for a fact there is a huge amount of people out there who have never installed the flooring they inspect. As far as I know our industry is the only one who allows this to happen. How on earth do you know enough about the trade you go out and make decisions that can effectively ruin a persons livelyhood?

I have also witnessed questions from so called paper tiger inspectors on forums that totally are like a DIY question, yet they are out there every day on claims and writing reports.

What kind of people allow this to happen? Should you be able to "LEARN" your inspection trade on the backs of the installation community? Over the years I keep hearing these numbers; 90% of all flooring failures are attributed to poor installation practices. Well can you imagine why that number is so high! We have inexperienced inspectors out there blaming installers for anything. They have been trained by manufacturers and told to report anything even unrelated to the problem at hand so they can deny the claim and blame the installer. I've worked for the inspection brokerage firms and I have seen this happen first hand. Nothing makes me more upset than hearing those falsely inflated numbers thrown out there.

These paper tiger inspectors have a slew of paper certs, but do they really know the trade from the bottom up? Who is going to step up and stop this? It's been happening far to long.

Things to do at an inspection;

1) If you ever have a floor that needs an inspection make certain you are present. Take pictures, take pictures if him doing his field tests.

2) Ask that person how much hands on flooring experience he or she has. If they will not or cannot verify it ask for another inspector.

3) Ask who certified him and ask to see his certification papers or card.

4) Ask or find out who the inspection entity was approved by ie manufacturers or who?

If by chance you get taken to court and the inspector chooses to not provide proof of experience ie journeyman experience have you lawyer take him to the task about how it is he is such an expert just taking a 3 day class and a middle school type multiple choice question exam, some are even open book. LOL

Since Lee Tuckers article on the state of the inspection industry was published in the bnp Floorcovering Installer Magazine a few years ago it has been buried and is still business as usual.

Please post this on all flooring websites.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:36 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Spencer, TN
I'm currently dealing with an idiot inspector.We finished about 2800 sf of White Oak a couple of months ago,and it turned out perfect.The crawlspace of this home had been flooded.All the hardwood had been ripped out,and the restoration company had dried the subfloor,and crawl space.New 3 mil plastic was put in the crawlspace,with dehumidifiers running for approx. 5 weeks prior to installation.At the time of installation the subfloor moisture content was 10%,average for this region,and the flooring was 8-9%.We allowed 2 weeks acclimation,installed using 15 lb felt underlayment.After sanding we had a great looking floor.
2 weeks later the home owner called me and said her floors are "buckling". I return to the home and find that the wood is actually cupping.So now I'm trying to figure out where the moisture is coming from.
the subfloor has 15% moisture content,with the hardwood approaching 12%???
Can't figure out where it's coming from.
This flooring inspector is telling her "either your floors weren't properly installed,or they just didn't sand them flat",and that the only way to find the problem is to cut out a section of the floor.??
I have no idea where this guy got his license,but he has no business in this industry.
I have convinced the lady to run dehumidifiers and monitor the rh,to get her flors back in stable condition.
She's still skeptical though.This inspector has scared her a bit with his bs.
I'm gonna make it a point to meet this guy,in the home,with the owner present.He definitely needs a flooring lesson.


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm
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Location: Tucson AZ
I should have added, 5) Get a second opinion by a real, qualified inspector.

Out here in AZ the home inspection industry was plagued by the same thing. They banded together and stopped it. Now you need a license, exam and proof of industry background. Now they get paid more, less riff-raff. I spoke to the Registrar of Contractors out here about it and he could not believe it.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm
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Location: Tucson AZ
Lee's article link. http://www.fcimag.com/Articles/Cover_St ... 0000187385

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Milford,Connecticut
Great information. One of the best ways of dealing with this problem is to have a rock solid contract with your customer. I tell them exactly what I am responsible for . Also , I noticed that Steven takes pictures of his meter readings on his installs. Great thing to do.

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Paul @ Advanced Wood Floors
Milford,Connecticut
http://www.addwoodfloors.com


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:25 am 
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Location: Tucson AZ
Paul, yes I do along with ph if on concrete and all that, time date stamp with some background of house in a few if possible. The best protection against these yahoos is to document and of course install to the mans guidelines or as close to it as possible.

After a long thread on a Linkedin forums for inspectors I decided I should post information for installers who get caught in these situations. These type hired gun inspectors will look for anything to help the man deny the claim, even if it does not have anything to do with the issue at hand. Even if it is as insignificant as a couple planks with nailing schedule off.

We as installers know that humans are not perfect, all jobs are not perfect at times and textiles and hardly perfect all the time. Textiles have never been perfect yet with newer technological advances in machinery they come awful close, but not all the time. These type inspectors do not understand that. Many of them have never installed a sf of flooring in their lives.

It's not just installers who should beware though. It is the retailers and the consumer as well.

I think taking pictures of the inspector performing the field test is going to make them be mnore honest. You could catch them performing one incorrectly as well as having the same ones for your own file. That should really scare off the riffraff.

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Milford,Connecticut
I'm trying to avoid jobs that aren't nail down installs because I simply don't trust manufacturers .With standard wood floors that are nailed or stapled down, I can basically fix anything that goes wrong by sanding it.Our flooring manufacturers are about as mediocre as our auto manufacturers. We make really mediocre stuff in this country just to save a few bucks (with a few exceptions)

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Paul @ Advanced Wood Floors
Milford,Connecticut
http://www.addwoodfloors.com


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 Post subject: Re: Inspectors With No Flooring Experience?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:17 am 
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Paul, did you see the link I posted to Anderson's install pdf? Thats the first manufacturer I have seen so far that actually referenced HPVA standard for engineered. And they claim their engineered exceeds the standard as well. I have seen a couple reference they meet U.S. manufacturing standards but to not specify which one.

Kudos to Anderson, and I will note that to my customers.

Material is
manufactured to exceed industry standards (ANSI/HPVA EF 2009).

http://www.andersonfloors.com/Files/Eng ... 10revB.pdf

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Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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