If you are referring to the message board at http://www.FloorTekTalk.com, you will not see installers slandered. Most of us won't go down to that level and are above that kind of immature behavior.

Yes, we discuss complaints and post photos of problems for open discussion. Most photos posted are installer error because that is what is out there to see.

I don't know of any installer, other than JC, viewing the site as it is closed and will remain closed.
We are also in the midst of upgrading to new software which will close the site down for awhile. But the new software will allow us to maintain a closed message board to keep unwanted and prejudiced individuals off the site.

Of course not Ray. I believe you.




I just want to ask...open to whom? Trusted inspectors? JC is a smart guy but well, he will see. Just interested as to why it is closed? There ain't no secrets out there you guys know that everybody else does not know. Could it be embarassing moments? I mean seriously, how many different secnerios can there be on flooring failures? I think we probably have debated them all over the last ten years wouldn't you say? Whats to hide?





Ya know what they say abot meetings behind closed doors brother.

Yes, Stephen,
We keep to ourselves.
We enjoy having intellectual discussions without the prejudiced posts. We're there to learn, share inspection techniques and help each other.
We respect those installers with the mind set of helping and sharing. We greatly appreciate the intelligence of craftsman willing to discuss the various issues we observe during the inspection process.
To do so, we have found it best to close the forum leaving the participants comfortable to speak freely.

Why would installers that know their stuff want to share with biased opinionated inspectors? It is bad for them to listen to you guys. Full of misinformation and hypotheticals.
Like one recent topic before you banned me for what I don't know, but no matter same ole stories all the time. One inspector said he called the flooring issue of being locked in as installer error. But only one inspector there had the nards to tell you guys it is impossible to know what the gap size the installer left.
Very typical of the old and new inspector. No telling how many lives have been ruined by inspectors that have no clue, that have never installed hardwood like you, ie the blcok out of the inspection forum. Pretty embarrassing no? You really do not belong in any installer/hardwood forums Mr. Inspector/installer.

You say you want intellectual but you can't handle the truth. lol You say you were an installer like many others, yet I've seen no evidence that you were nothing but a grunt helper and have no background info that can be documented as being a journeyman hardwood installer, hardwood anything, let alone a carpet helper. Show us. Bring on those awesome intelectual discussions and questions you think no one here is capable of answering. Bring it on.

Ciao

I find that most inspectors find in favor of whoever hired and is paying them, usually the manufacturer or the retailer. Throwing the installer under the proverbial bus. I recently had a Pergo floor that had end seams seperating in one area. The inspector said it was because of of a hump in the floor that was out of specs. And I will be honest there was a hump in the floor but that hump was 10 feet away from the problem area. Where the seams were coming apart there was absolutely no deflection. Many years ago I had a Armstrong inspector tell me the reason boards with peaked seams(old glue together type) in the middle of the floor hadn't gone down was because I didn't use there clamps or pull bar.
Anything not to take responsibility. They know if they don't back the one who hires them(QUEST) they won't get anymore calls.

Yup Jeff, all those are bulls__t reports from inspectors. If there's no deflection a click floor should not come apart. Glued seam edges peak due to the water content of the adhesive and just not drying fast enough....high rh in the home. Not using pull bar or clamps....ridiculas if the seam is tight and if it's installed to specs, period. I got me some Pergo info supplied from them on anything that can or could go wrong with a Pergo floors.

All of you know you can get a back-up inspection right? But then your most likely to get another manufacturer trained no good inexperienced inspector. So you must hire your own. Screen them wisely. Or take them to court on your own and have them explain in scientific terms how it is this failure came about. Take pictures, then sue them after you win. That goes for consumers as well.

I've gone behind just about every inspector out here in my area and I could not believe the reports I read. Then find out they can change your report if the brokerage firmdoes not agree (Ask Perry). After finding out one brokerage firm and claims analysts were disallowing claims on delaminated engineered wood due to low Rh that was it (box store stuff), I QUIT INSPECTIONS.
I did my research and found the HPVA standards. The way they legally get out of it is that they claim the foreign made wood does not have to be manufactured to this standard unless the manufacturer says it does...in writing. Most do not say they comply with U.S. manufacturing standards.

Now you understand why just about every manufacturer of engineered has WRITTEN stringent ambient temp and rh installation requirements PRIOR to installation. Cheap manufacturing.

Stephen,

I could not agree with you more, have not had to many inspections here i think they were all factory reps. Each time we encountered one he found something wrong with the installer I.E. staples eight inches apart instead of six caused delamination, not using there vapor barrier can warranty the finish blemishes, I could go on forever. Really glad they were not my installs. Keep up the good work

Mickey, luckily we have a couple good reps out here who actually installed hardwood. Most other reps...well were just salesman or got a biz degree and know nothing about the floors they sell or rep. You obviously know that.

Even in that ole wood flooring association has inspectors I wouldn't let inspect my dog house. Oh looky at me, I am a book read inspector who worked for my daddy's store and I was a crapet helper/salesman.

Unfortunately, There are many Inspectors who agree with you. I am one of them.
Seems like there are many who are afraid to lose an account when we are to be neutral and non-prejudicial.

It is what it is and that is why manufacturers are now having their sales reps inspect the floors. The big guys are not using the services of inspectors as we learn more about construction of engineered wood and the science to support the conclusions.

Stephen,
Who are the inspectors you have followed?
I have read reports from your area..

Cheap, engineered wood that does not perform in your area is a defect. That material is not made for your climate and should not be sold there. Simply said:: it is a defect.
But tell us which standard you read and give us the quote that confirms this statement from the HPVA standards... and which HPVA standard?

Man o man, I get tied up elsewhere for a few days and miss all this controversy.
Here is my take on flooring inspectors. In our area, there are about 6 that I am aware of. Of these, only one comes from an installation background. Four are former manufacturer's reps or inside salesmen, and one comes from a carpet background.
Of these 6, I am constantly (well not "constantly" but you know what I mean) called upon for assistance in determining probable cause for the various issues they find, by all 6. And yet, I am not "qualified" to do inspections myself. (although I have been called upon by the government sponsored watchdogs to act as an expert witness in various disputes between home-owners and builders)
I have also be asked on occasion to respond to reports that did not go in favour of the person who hired the guy, of these I decline to participate in any of them.
Once, we had a customer who hired a floor inspector (actually a lumberyard guy, but certified, nevertheless by NWFA) who found incredible fault with our installation. At the end of it, the guy admitted he didnt have a clue what he was talking about, and went back to selling 2 by 4's.
For those here who don't know me, I have been in dedicated hardwood business for 50 years, 40 of them as an installer (sometimes finisher) and the last 10 years acting as technical advisor to our company and the industry in general. During this time , I have constantly upgraded my knowledge of our industry, and even so; would never claim to know it all or present myself as being "the expert". For that matter, I have learned a huge amount about our industry through this forum. Some of you guys are amazing, and I acknowledge your wide array of knowledge of hardwood flooring, installation and finishing techniques, repair methods, etc.
So, thank you for making this available, and I hope to continue to contribute my 2 cents to the discussion , less of course the .75 cent tax on that 2 cents.

[quote="Ray]

Stephen,
Who are the inspectors you have followed?
I have read reports from your area..

Cheap, engineered wood that does not perform in your area is a defect. That material is not made for your climate and should not be sold there. Simply said:: it is a defect.
But tell us which standard you read and give us the quote that confirms this statement from the HPVA standards... and which HPVA standard?[/quote]


Define perform? lol

I ain't telling you again, I was the one who found the hvpa standard in the first place and showed it to ya. And Canada has the same one you should show to your LL client.

Its time to chime in on what is going on with comments regarding inspectors and installers. It is starting to get out of hand beginning with an uncalled for image placed on this site. That was immediately removed but not before 2 regulars here saw it.

From now on any comments that goes off topic in other topics or comments of each others profession will be deleted. I was hopping that one of you were going to cool things down but that doesnt seem to be happening. Have some professionalism and give your opinions on the topics the members post.

Once again thanks for your input but I cant imagine that others are thinking this is a good forum if this disagreement continues.

Keith

This topic is now closed