I posted earlier on cracking, cupping and delamination that I have on a newly installed engineered hardwood floor. The consensus I got from the forum was that delamination was a manufacturing error, period, although there was some disagreement if the cupping or cracking could have some installation component. Anyway the inspector from the retailer submitted his report. The email from the retailer representative is pasted below in red, and the inspectors report is in blue. The retailer is blaming the installer. Comments?

We received the inspection report at the end of last week and it is attached for your reference.
I would like to highlight few points from the report. First of all the fact that flooring is to dry. There are 2 readings from the floor. One is invasive, meaning that moisture is measured deep inside the board. This reading is 6%. Reading on the top of the board is 6%. It means that bottom of the flooring planks are drying faster than the top layer and it produces the force that can de-laminate board or make it crack at the ends. The subfloor is extremely dry. The problem was noticed during the installation and it should have been addressed immediately by your installer. Installation should have been stopped until problem was solved. The problem did not stop after installation but continued worsening. That points to the environment conditions issue.
Even though it is not manufacturing problem we are willing to work with you to fix it as much as possible. Please let me know what you expect from us and I will get back to you to discuss it.
In regards to smudges on the floor I am not sure how you tried to clean it. First of all during the installation floor should have been covered with protective cover if workers were walking on it. More over, hardwood flooring is the last thing to be installed after all other work has been done. You can use hardwood flooring cleaner that does not have wax in it. If you can send me few pictures I would appreciate it.

Thank you and I look forward to hearing form you soon.
Product Style
Engineered Flooring Santos Mahogany

Problem
Customer bought 2037 sq ft of engineered flooring Santos Mahogany At the end of August 2011. Flooring was installed at the end of September2011. One week after installation customer detected cracks at the end of the boards and "some delamination". Based on the answers to our questrionary we suspect ther is moisture problem. Subfloor extremely dry and humidity high.Here are answers to our questionary:
a. Where was the product acclimated? How long did you let the product acclimate? (In the Home .. Approx 2 Weeks)

b. Was the product installed in a new or old building? (Old Building)

c. When did the problem show up for the first time? (Approx 1 Week After Installation)

d. What type of Sub-Floor was the product installed over? (Downstais Concrete Substrate .. Upstairs Plywood Subfloor)

We need:
1. Moisture content readings in the flooring
2. Moistuire content reading in the sub-floor
3. Relatinve humididty in the house
4. Presence of any moisture source in the house
5. Extent of the problem / area afected
6. Any info relevant to the problem described


Please note responses below were answered by installer. Also note the answer for humidity in the house is 61%; there is no way the house had a humidity this high since the house is located in a very dry locale and the AC had been on for weeks.

e. Was a moisture barrier installed? (No - Glue Down Installation... Urethane Glue Used)

f. Is there a crawl space below? (No)

g. What is the humidity in the house? (At Time of Install 61% .. As Of Now ..Not known)

h. Have you used a humidifier / dehumidifier? (Not Known)

i. What is the moisture reading of the sub-floor (if available)? (Ranged from 1.9% - 2.4% At Time of Install)

j. How is the flooring being cleaned? (Not Known)

k. Do you have any pets? (Not Known)

l. Is there any other information relevant to the problem? (There are a couple of boxes left over that have remained in the customers home, and also have this same issue.)

SquareFeetTotal
2037 sq ft

InspectorUserName
xxxxxx

InspectionDate
11/16/2011

ReportDate
11/21/2011

Subfloor
Concrete

Underlayment
unknown

HeatingSystem
forced air

Humidifier
No

Dehumidifier
No

Acclimation
Yes

Adults
1

Children
0

Pets
0

RelativeHumidity
31

MoistureReading
11

MoistureMeterType
Tramex

RequestDate
10/12/2011

Client Contact
amocevic




Report:The flooring is installed in a single family residence in Las Vegas, Nevada. The flooring is partially installed on stairs leading to the 2nd floor. The flooring is also installed upstairs and in a downstairs bedroom. The floor has substantially delaminated in nine locations. The top layer of the flooring is coming off. In three areas, I was able to lift the top layer off with a fingernail with very little force. The wood is extremely dry. The customer stated that this was noticed at installation and has substantially worsened throughout the following week. The floor continues to delaminate. The six foot straight edge revealed that the floor is flat and within tolerance. The temperature in the home was 72 degrees and there was 31 percent humitiy at the time of the inspection. The Ligno Meter measured a 6 on the scale. There was no moisture source found. The concern was throughout the installation. The floor has not yet been cleaned. The product was acclimated for 12 days in the home. The product was installed in a 10 year old home. There is a proper expansion gap around the perimeter of the installation.
=====================================

Wow, both of those are wrong. Despite what the installer claimed the rh was, could have been raining. But still at time of inspection a 6 % reading is normal for your zone considering the current temp and rh of the home. Yes the wood can delaminate if not manufacturerd in accordance with astm standards, meaning cheap foreign made engineered junk. Also quoting Vanier; 60° – 80° F and relative humidity between 35 - 55% R. H...... If your within 5% rh your wood should not delaminate if it is a quality wood product. Even then if it is not manufacturerd to that standard I quoted above, why are they selling it in a dry zone where the manufacturer knows it cannot function properly? They have the responsibility to sell a product that will function properly in your zone.

And they said the subfloor is to dry, so the concrete is to dry. LOL What a joke.
The more I read that the more I get confused,


So many conflicting things in those it's stunning.

I guessing that the inspector was hired by the manufacture or retailer where you purchased product. You have to get past their first line of defense. Do yourself a favor and hire your own inspector and be sure he knows wood floors specifically. lots of inspectors ive seen are clueless check his references.

I would consider getting your own inspection. Call Virginia Hardwood ( wholesale distributor) , they refer a couple very qualified inspectors in the area. They will tell you if they've heard of this guy. PM me if you want their #.


The only delamination issues I've seen out here,( in the time frame you've stated in your previous post), have been manufacturer related. I've seen plenty of splitting (depending a lot on specie), as a result of low RH maintained, and much longer time frames, also hairline splitting, right out of the box,( which can grow in excess quickly.. Even those floors...I haven't seen delaminate, which is structural, and pretty slam dunk manufacturer..

Why does the inspectors report say "moisture Reading 11" Eleven what? Eleven percent? Top to bottom? Then the retailer is saying 6% bottom to and 6% on top is making the floor delaminate? Huh?

These guys are idiots.

Welcome to 99% of the hardwood flooring industry in Las Vegas

Subfloor too dry??? now that is a joke...no radiant heat underneath..so nothing is too dry...
that whole report is a joke...get a certified NWFA independent inspector.

plywood too dry?..

some of the statements made are true..there is different expansion rates going on there and that is happening because of the materials used and the construction of the material..

12 days of acclimation?

from what i understand you DO NOT acclimate engineered flooring, but work with it right for the box....
but lets say i am wrong..( although i am not) read most manufacturers instruction..it says to leave boxes closed until install.

but back to it..if you acclimated 12 days...then that is more than sufficient time for the materials to adjust to home climate.

if it is installer error, why are unused materials experiencing same issues?

as for the installer correcting subfloor issues, you have adjusted RH to current range which is slightly low, but not enough to make this happen.

and if you read between the lines, they have offered to "help you as much possible"..pretty much sounds like an admission of guilt to me.they know they are not fully in the clear here..
My vote is retailer and manufacturer are to blame ..

be nice for as long as you can..then show your teeth with legal help...get your full inspection from aneutral party and then go from there.

OK Update; a second inspector paid for by the installer did an inspection. Have not gotten report yet, but do have measurements that were taken shown below.


Environmental conditions:

27.2% 74 degrees at surface of floor
24.6% 73 degrees in area

Foor moisture readings: 9.5-10.5%
Subfloor moisture readings: 8.5-10.5%

This inspector also verbally stated he thought the delamination was an installation issue related to humidity issues in the house. A third inspector that I spoke to stated that delamination is strictly a manufacturing issue unless the floor has literally been flooded.

Well..It looks like you got another brain surgeon inspector That statement is rediculous...Your house would have to be a swamp to delaminate the wood. Even then...it happens "in time", and with major cupping. And how does he justify delamination being an installation issue??

What happened to the fact of split/cracked planks in the box?

Your third inspector is right on.

i dont get how where these guys come up with these readings. If they understood wood they would know that the figures are out of wack. look at page 3 on this document, the chart at the bottom tells you what the m/c of wood will be at different temps and humidity. FYI humidity readings in your home will normally vary greatly at different times of day. I know in my house the r/h this time of year with the gas heat running during the day its about 45% because the furnace doesnt run much. At night when the temp drops the furnace runs much more and drops the r/h down quick to high 20's by 7am even with three small humidifiers running.


http://www.crescenthardwood.com/nwfa/water_and_wood.pdf

I agree, definetly go with the 3rd inspector. Dang, it takes three to find a competent one?